is tournament poker a "game of chance"?

uclabruinz · #1 10-02-2006, 10:52 AM

From the bill definition: "The term 'bet or wager' means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game subject to chance...."

Is tournament poker a "game subject to chance"? I would argue it's no different then a golf tournament. You pay an entry fee. You play a game of skill. If you win, you get paid out of the entry fee pool. Some company takes a little for facilitating the tournament.

Opinions?

poker1O1 · #2 10-02-2006, 10:54 AM

There is a degree of luck involved, luck = chance

scarfire · #3 10-02-2006, 11:16 AM

How about fishing tournaments. 70% skill, 30% luck.

Lori · #4 10-02-2006, 10:56 AM

It is 100% skill, the best players always win.

Lori

CaptainBusto · #5 10-02-2006, 10:57 AM

lol donkaments

heater · #6 10-02-2006, 10:58 AM

It would be more like a golf tournament if we were given a random ball of different size, weight, and shape before we teed off at each hole.

Even though skill wins out long term, there is a rather large element of chance in poker and I don't think there is going to be any way around that in the government's eyes.

uclabruinz · #7 10-02-2006, 11:01 AM

Well golf is definitely subject to some degree of chance, correct? Otherwise, Tiger would win every tournament. He does not win every tournament, neither does Phil Ivey. But they both win a lot of them.

I would argue that a "game subject to chance" means there is no skill involved, like flipping coins for $100 or something.

heater · #8 10-02-2006, 11:08 AM

Well when Tiger doesn't win chances are it isn't due to a random occurrence or because he was unlucky. It's because he didn't play as well as the next guy.

Don't get me wrong. I'm on your side and I would like someone to find a way to make this argument as well. I think that the governemnt would argue that "game subject to chance" doesn't mean no skill involved, it means some luck involved. That's poker.

uclabruinz · #9 10-02-2006, 11:13 AM

You don't think a particular round of golf involves at least some degree of luck? Ever have a ball hit the fairway and take a bad bounce into the rough, or vice versa? A wind gust take a ball into the water?

KingQueenSuited · #10 10-02-2006, 11:14 AM

There is luck involved with golf. Weather for one. You hit a killer drive, then a 40mph gust of wind comes and kills it. Miscut grass, a bad bounce, a cameraperson takes a picture at the wrong time and so on. there is luck in everything. However, golf and poker are games of skill and the better players will always win.