1-2$. 2 overcards against a unknown donk-bettor???

Raiseren1 · #1 10-01-2006, 11:05 AM

Any other way to play this?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.25 BB

Veron · #2 10-01-2006, 11:27 AM

Well, what you must consider is that calling the flop planning to fold the turn UI isn't the right play because you're only getting 5.5:1 on the flop and your hand is worth 3 outs.

Against an unknown I fold the flop.

Raiseren1 · #3 10-02-2006, 09:07 AM

Yeah, I should probably have folded. What if I had KQs (backdoor flush draw), wouldn't a call have been ok there? Is raising here horrible as well?

Bullitos · #4 10-02-2006, 10:44 AM

It's either a raise or a fold on the flop. Against an unknown I think it's better to fold the flop and see if he is a standard donker or if his donks should be respected.

I agree this is a tough spot and I sometimes do the same you did, just because it's almost impossible to put him on a hand in a blind battle like this when he donks the flop. I tend to call the flop and have no clue why I do it at the time I'm doing it. I'll fold this too next time, unless I feel they are trying to run over me, then I'll raise and take a stand.

TheScientist · #5 10-02-2006, 11:37 AM

I actually peel here.

I don't agree with our hand being worth only 3 outs, I'm thinking it's somewhere around 5. Villain has a 6 almost never. The vast majority of the time this is a pair of threes, ace high, or a random small pocket pair. Vs many aggressive players this will be trash. Oftentimes villain will give up on this hand on the turn. If you hit your Q or K outs, you might even consider check raising an aggressive opponent.
I don't like a raise here, I think you're putting money in too often when you're behind. I don't think a raise is scaring away any hand that beats you on this board, though it will fold the trash hands immediately. (Who will call down Q4 and K5 type hands if you hit)
This is one of the most common scenarios where, if it gets to showdown, I usually make a player note what they donked with and what the flop was.
As played I do fold the turn here.