Current Problems WIth Pokerstars VIP/Supernova Program And Suggestions

[DCJ311]

Caveat: I know that there is already a thread about this but I feel like these ideas would somewhat derail it.

First off, I am a Supernova player at Pokerstars, and have accrued almost 300,000 VPP's this year. Over the past 2 years, I have corresponded with various Pokerstars officials back and forth both via e-mail and in person on how to improve their site for all players, not just the high stakes ones.

As mostly a $225, $555, and $1050 sit and go player, I've been frustrated with Pokerstars for years given their lack of activity in their high limit sngs compared to the ones on PartyPoker. I have persisted with them in the past on giving superactive players incentive to play on Pokerstars, and that was one of the basis for the implementation of the VIP program.

I was initially happy with the Supernova program, as it is roughly equivalent to 28% 'rakeback' for Supernova members. However, even with the massive incentive to play on Pokerstars post-VIP program, the sit and go's I like to play are barely more active than they were a year ago.

I have racked my brain trying to think of why people aren't lining up to play big buyin sit and go's at a much higher rate than they once did, since it is a really easy way to gain FPPs and become a Supernova member.

But when it comes down to it, if you are a regular 8-10 tabler, there are far more reasons to use those 10 tables at PartyPoker rather than Pokerstars, given the 'promotional' incentives available at PartyPoker.

I have done the calculations and realize that I spend roughly $200,000 a year in rake on poker, which is frighteningly sick when you stop to think about it. DarioMinieri of Pokerstars recently traded in 3 million FPPs for a Porsche. Do you know how much rake he had to pay for that Porsche? I believe it's somewhere in the ballpark of $170,000.

Listen, if Pokerstars were really on point, instead of giving guys like Victor Ramdin and others who hardly give Pokerstars any business big endorsement contracts, they'd take the $50k hit and give Dariominieri a free Porsche, simply for being one of Pokerstars' most active players. Sure it's really nice that Barry Greenstein is a member of Team Pokerstars and plays a tournament every once in a while, but the millions of dollars paid to him should really have gone to Pokerstars' most active players.

It's really frustrating to be one of hundreds of people who have given upwards of several hundred thousand dollars to Pokerstars in the past several years, and end up with very little to show for it in terms of promotions and endorsement deals, meanwhile a few guys who hardly play on Pokerstars are getting endorsement offers.

I mean, why call it 'VIP' if all you're really getting is 28% rakeback? If I accrue 2 million VPPs in a year, I don't get any more special treatment than a guy with 100k VPP.

At least on PartyPoker, the more you play, the more promotional cashback you receive, as well as a free WSOP seat to the 30 most active players over a given week this summer.

The best thing to do on Pokerstars is get your 100k VPP so that you are eligible for all Supernova promotions and freerolls, then simply take your business to PartyPoker so you get better value for your dollar.

I really do prefer playing on Pokerstars rather than PartyPoker, so here are some suggestions as to how they can improve:

1. Add a higher VIP tier than Supernova. The problem with Supernova is that it polarizes players. If you multi-table 25/50 NL and $530+25 sit and go's all day, it takes at most 3-4 months of active play to get the 100,000 VPP. It's really a joke and doesn't set the bar high enough for truly active players.

If you're a $1/2 limit player who plays only 1-2 tables, you have no chance of making Supernova, and it gives you virtually no incentive to play on Pokerstars aside from the nice software.

So, Pokerstars should add something an 'Atomic' tier for players who reach a level of 500,000 VPPs per year, and these players should be simply given great comps and other promotions, like free Super Bowl and World Series tickets, cruises, free entries into WSOP, etc. As I said before, guys like Dariominieri should be GIVEN a Porsche, not have to trade 3 million FPPs for one.

2. Allow more flexibility with FPPs. FPPs should really be allowed to be exchanged for W$ and possibly even T$. I have 900,000 FPPs in my account and I can't do anything productive with them at the moment except buy into maybe a dozen specified tournaments.

There's a huge market out there that profits from buying and selling W$. It's clear that most players are looking to dump W$ for cash. Why not let them exchange W$ for FPPs? Each FPP could be worth $0.015 W$ and vice versa.

If you own a poker site, your main financial goal is to keep as much money as possible on your site. If you let players exchange W$ for cash, you take a significant amount of money out of your site when the players take the cash and withdraw. If you allow W$ and FPPs to be interchangeable, you keep the money on the site and gain more traffic for your satellites and freerolls.

The same thing applies for T$. Why should I have to spend 31,000 FPPs on a $500 Amazon gift certificate, when all I really want to do is use those FPPs to play a $500 sit and go?

If Pokerstars wants their sit and go's and tournaments to be more populated, allow players to trade their FPPs for T$. It's ridiculous that Pokerstars wants me to withdraw $8000 worth of FPPs for an EPT Baden tournament, but doesn't want me to spend $8000 worth of FPPs on their sit and gos in which they are raking almost $800. Explain that one to me!

Anyways, I'd like others to chime in and I'll add more later.

[ZBTHorton]

David -

I agree with you on a lot of your points, even though I do disagree with the whole thing that things should be given to you.

I think the main thing that Stars misses out on is cash incentive bonuses. I'm going to make 2K off the latest {arty VIP promotion and I play 1/2NL. I'd make 5K if I were playing higher. And that's not including rakeback.

When I spoke with Stars management last month, it looked like it was going to cost me an average of 3-4K/month to play on Stars. I couldn't justify the switch, and have yet to move over there even though I would love to keep all my money in one place. I have paid 13K in rake this month. I guess it's there loss.

[sigurrostyp]

Excellent Post

[Melchiades]

Agree with the FPP flexibility point. Not so much on giving out stuff free.

[smartalecc5]

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Excellent Post

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[Gotmilk]

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Agree with the FPP flexibility point. Not so much on giving out stuff free.

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B&M Casinos gives stuff tho their best customers all the time, and online poker players are often bigger customers than B&M customers. While they don't neccesarily have to give every one of their $200k/y customers a car for no points, it would have been a nice gesture (plus good business) to have one as a race to 3 million points. Think how much money they could have made by saying: "First to 3M points gets it for free; If you aren't first don't worry, you can use your points to buy it anyways." The whole FPP system creates a feeling of having this currency that you have to think about spending on what. When that currency is only amounting to 28% rebate it puts Stars at a real comparitive disadvantage compared to players on Party who are getting close to 33% straight up cashback right now. Stars, for a cost that they'd easily recoup by increased business, could be sending people all kinds of free stuff that they don't need to think about whether they want to use points or not for. Let me think about what I want to spend my 28% (or in my case, only 20% as I've played tons and tons and tons and am still only Platinum) rakeback on, but surprise me with some A's playoff tickets in the mail or a trip to Hawaii, or a weekend in the Bahamas with a $1k tournament entry. They could easily be rebating people premiums like that for just an extra 10% of people's rake and you'd have the whole industry playing on Stars. People like getting stuff that really feels free, and when you have to spend FPPs, it doesn't feel free.

[Bonafone]

Hey,

I'm one of the high volume/high volume players on PartyPoker (I've paid over 50k in rake this month to PP) . I messed around with the sngs for 2 days on Stars and made over 15k fpps, which means I could get to supernova in less than 2 weeks if i wanted to. I recently looked at the supernova program and it looked very good, but still didn't compare to rb + the Red Carpet Promotion that PP gives me. So adding another level would be very awesome.

ps another main reason i don't play on stars is because they won't let me change my name...guess they don't realize how much rake I'd pay if i played stars full time.

[O Doyle Rules]

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or a weekend in the Bahamas with a $1k tournament entry.


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As I mentioned in the other thread this is what I have been suggesting to them for sometime.

A SuperNova only land based free roll (for a substantial prize pool) in the Caribbean or Vegas, all expenses paid trip for two. This would be a nice "thank you" at the end of the year for all their most loyal customers. It would also be an event that would build loyalty towards Stars for the longterm, not only for the players, but also the spouses and significant others of players towards Stars.

I also think it would be an extra incentive for players to reach SuperNova status knowing at year end they get to play in such an event.

They get someone like Joe, Greg, Chris or even Lee (the man) to host the event, which could make it even more of a special award for their top players. Heck, they could then even let the winner of the free roll play the "celebrity host" in a free HU match for something like 10K.

[chezlaw]

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Agree with the FPP flexibility point. Not so much on giving out stuff free.

[/ QUOTE ]

B&M Casinos gives stuff tho their best customers all the time, and online poker players are often bigger customers than B&M customers. While they don't neccesarily have to give every one of their $200k/y customers a car for no points, it would have been a nice gesture (plus good business) to have one as a race to 3 million points. Think how much money they could have made by saying: "First to 3M points gets it for free; If you aren't first don't worry, you can use your points to buy it anyways." The whole FPP system creates a feeling of having this currency that you have to think about spending on what. When that currency is only amounting to 28% rebate it puts Stars at a real comparitive disadvantage compared to players on Party who are getting close to 33% straight up cashback right now. Stars, for a cost that they'd easily recoup by increased business, could be sending people all kinds of free stuff that they don't need to think about whether they want to use points or not for. Let me think about what I want to spend my 28% (or in my case, only 20% as I've played tons and tons and tons and am still only Platinum) rakeback on, but surprise me with some A's playoff tickets in the mail or a trip to Hawaii, or a weekend in the Bahamas with a $1k tournament entry. They could easily be rebating people premiums like that for just an extra 10% of people's rake and you'd have the whole industry playing on Stars. People like getting stuff that really feels free, and when you have to spend FPPs, it doesn't feel free.


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I disagree with that. I don't want suprise gifts that I may not want or be able to use. Please suprise me with bonus FPP's

Gifts to attract new players is a great idea but the serious vips want agreed fair reward. If rakeback isn't possible then the flexible FPP system is fine with me. The only big isue is the rate which is low at the moment. A new tier or two is a great idea.

BTW Stars have given special benefits to there VIPS, during the 5 billion hand bonanza the prizes were increased for vips I won one and think I got an extra 40% for being platinum.

Just in case these thread seem to be knocking stars. I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] stars.

chez

[Gotmilk]

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Agree with the FPP flexibility point. Not so much on giving out stuff free.

[/ QUOTE ]

B&M Casinos gives stuff tho their best customers all the time, and online poker players are often bigger customers than B&M customers. While they don't neccesarily have to give every one of their $200k/y customers a car for no points, it would have been a nice gesture (plus good business) to have one as a race to 3 million points. Think how much money they could have made by saying: "First to 3M points gets it for free; If you aren't first don't worry, you can use your points to buy it anyways." The whole FPP system creates a feeling of having this currency that you have to think about spending on what. When that currency is only amounting to 28% rebate it puts Stars at a real comparitive disadvantage compared to players on Party who are getting close to 33% straight up cashback right now. Stars, for a cost that they'd easily recoup by increased business, could be sending people all kinds of free stuff that they don't need to think about whether they want to use points or not for. Let me think about what I want to spend my 28% (or in my case, only 20% as I've played tons and tons and tons and am still only Platinum) rakeback on, but surprise me with some A's playoff tickets in the mail or a trip to Hawaii, or a weekend in the Bahamas with a $1k tournament entry. They could easily be rebating people premiums like that for just an extra 10% of people's rake and you'd have the whole industry playing on Stars. People like getting stuff that really feels free, and when you have to spend FPPs, it doesn't feel free.


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with that. I don't want suprise gifts that I may not want or be able to use. Please suprise me with bonus FPP's

Gifts to attract new players is a great idea but the serious vips want agreed fair reward. If rakeback isn't possible then the flexible FPP system is fine with me. The only big isue is the rate which is low at the moment. A new tier or two is a great idea.

BTW Stars have given special benefits to there VIPS, during the 5 billion hand bonanza the prizes were increased for vips I won one and think I got an extra 40% for being platinum.

Just in case these thread seem to be knocking stars. I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] stars.

chez

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Fine, then offer an alternative of 25% of the cash value of the award as a cash bonus or something. The fact is people want things to feel free, and under the current system they don't feel free. It's also something that can help the smaller volume player.

Currently, if someone plays 40 $114 tournament per month they gross Stars $360. This is barely silverstar level. That means they earn somewhere between 1800-2700 FPPs per month or roughly $29-$43 in value. That's just not going to get the casual player excited about playing more, particularly if he feels he's just burning those FPP's in longshot satellite tournaments for much smaller stakes than his average game. If they budgeted another 10% in premium items for the guy, they could send him a new book every month just for being a good player, or a $30 dinner for two at Friday's, or put players like that in a category and send 1 out of 6 of them an ipod nano.

I'd love to see an extra 10% in FPP's awarded, but quite frankly I see the value of just doing some sort of promo giveaways with that 10% as far more enticing to attract casual players, and to get casual players to play more. And the value of casual players playing more than the irritation of getting a poker book that I already have, or a weekend in Cabo San Lucas that I may not want or be able to use.

Make people feel like high rollers, and they'll act like high rollers. Just think of the business they would get if they had a monthly vacation, with no FPP redemption required. Simply clear $10,000 in a rake (or the FPP equiv.) over ANY period of time and select from a $1000 pokerstars vacation package or some Bose speakers. Clear $2,000 in rake and play a satellite vs others where 1 in 5 win...They could get good value by getting NBA/NHL/MLB luxury boxes and just giving people trips to games and stuff that didn't require redemptions.

Seems like a 10% risk in their revenue is worth the risk to get at the middle limit casual players they are desperate for. Imagine where all the casual 10/20,15/30 and $50+ SNG players on Party would play if they knew for the same amount of play they could get some FPPs to do with what they wish and some primo tickets to the game or a trip to somewhere cool every few months.