2/4 turn semi bluff raise

SlamminP · #1 09-28-2006, 10:02 PM

I hate these plays cos they never work but this spot seemed perfect to try to pull one off. Am I right? wrong? Standard? I didn't wanna bail out on the flop to avoid looking like I can be run off cards easily. Mostly concerned with the turn raise. Any feedback appreciated.

Villain is 38/11/0.96 after 44 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

TheHip41 · #2 09-28-2006, 10:38 PM

is the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] really going to scare this guy? If he c/r the flop with a J, or middle pair, or two pair or better, he's never folding, and he will occasionally 3bet.

this is a good example of charging yourself the most to draw.

Just call the turn, and fold the river UI.

If it was the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], then that's a different story, he may fold 55 now.

JJH3984 · #3 09-28-2006, 10:43 PM

Unless I have a history with the guy, I fold the flop in this spot. Is this too weak?

Hobbs. · #4 09-28-2006, 10:59 PM

I like it actually. I'm very often playing the hand this way OR betting the flop and folding to the c/r. Actually, given the guy called in the sb and not the bb preflop, makes me more likely to fold to the c/r.

SlamminP · #5 09-28-2006, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] really going to scare this guy? If he c/r the flop with a J, or middle pair, or two pair or better, he's never folding, and he will occasionally 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought raising on the turn would make villain put me on an overpair, but I guess he would have to be pretty weak to think that. I think any reasonable opponent would fold a pair other than jacks here.. no?

I am struggling to find profitable moments to apply the turn semi bluff raise. I'm assuming this play is a key component in a winner's bag of tricks. Am I wrong? I recall sklansky advocating this play in several scenarios in HEPFAP, but maybe these were fundamentally different from my example. Can anyone present a few guidelines as to what kind of scenario this play is profitable in?

JJH3984 · #6 09-28-2006, 11:37 PM

Oh yeah. If I call the flop raise raise, I think I'm liking the turn raise a lot. I actually think you get called down by a 7 a lot in a blind battle, but, given the equity you have here, your FE doesn't have to be that great to make this play worthwhile.

Edit: It also gets you to showdown against a FD.

aal113086 · #7 09-29-2006, 03:12 AM

he is never folding this turn.. so obviously its the wrong move

JJH3984 · #8 09-29-2006, 03:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
he is never folding this turn.. so obviously its the wrong move

[/ QUOTE ]

How is a flop checkraise from the SB in a steal situation an indication that he won't fold to a turn raise from a TAG?

goofball · #9 09-29-2006, 05:18 AM

Giving up on the flop is fine here. Don't make a habit of giving up on flops though :-p

As someone pointed out, the 3s is the least scary card ever, a good hand reader will correctly put you on a flush draw a lot of the time.

JJH3984 · #10 09-29-2006, 05:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Giving up on the flop is fine here. Don't make a habit of giving up on flops though :-p

As someone pointed out, the 3s is the least scary card ever, a good hand reader will correctly put you on a flush draw a lot of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain is 38/11/0.96 after 44 hands

probably not a good hand reader