Call it "The 45suited"

[45suited]

PP$22. Here it is again. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t595)
UTG+1 (t945)
MP1 (t530)
MP2 (t925)
MP3 (t1360)
CO (t1340)
Hero (t730)
SB (t855)
BB (t720)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls t30, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP3 folds</font>, CO calls t30, <font color="red">Hero t730 (All-in)</font>,

[eniven]

I don't understand why you would make this play? Are you trying to pick up 105 chips (blinds plus limps) or are you hoping to double up early?

I'm a bit confused as to why you would play it this way.

[45suited]

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I don't understand why you would make this play? Are you trying to pick up 105 chips (blinds plus limps) or are you hoping to double up early?

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YES [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Do you think that the play is bad? If so, why?

[eniven]

LOL

Well, I'm not saying I think it's bad per se... It's just a lot different than the way most would play it.

The standard play would be to limp and try to hit a set or hit a flop where you have an overpair and bet it hard right?

It just seems like it's a lot to risk for 105 chips. High risk, not so big reward...

How come you play it this way rather than limping (or possibly raising a standard amount)?

[45suited]

I always enjoy discussing this situation.


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The standard play would be to limp and try to hit a set or hit a flop where you have an overpair and bet it hard right?

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I suppose that is the standard play. For me, with this amount of chips or less, the push is standard.


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It just seems like it's a lot to risk for 105 chips. High risk, not so big reward...

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Ahh... the crux of the matter. What is the reward? Isn't it nice to add ~15% to my stack? Of course, I could also double up. The risk is not nearly as high as you might think.


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How come you play it this way rather than limping (or possibly raising a standard amount)?

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This is probably around the most chips that I would do this with. But anytime I can add 15-20% to my stack on such a low risk move (and it really is fairly low risk, think about it), I can't pass it up. Add to that all the times that I double up with it, it becomes a no-brainer for me.

[eniven]

Hmm, well I suppose you both make good points... Maybe this is something I will need to consider adding to my game.

What other hands would you do this with? z32fanatic says he'd do it with AK and AQ. Would you?

I'm assuming you'd do this with JJ and QQ.

Would you do the same play with KK and AA? Or would you just raise to 150ish to maybe get some action?

Would you do this with any pairs lower than TT?

[z32fanatic]

I think this is a good play in an 800 chip game, not as good in a 1000 chip game. You're almost definitely ahead even if you do get called, and if you don't you'll increase your stack by 15% with no showdown. After the flop, you're going to wish those 100 chips were yours so why not just take them. Also, I think this could get paid off by 55-99 in a $22. I would do the same with AK and AQ probably.

[45suited]

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I think this is a good play in an 800 chip game, not as good in a 1000 chip game.

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Definitely agree with you here.

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Also, I think this could get paid off by 55-99 in a $22.

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Yes, definitely.

Usually, when I post something along these lines, I inevitably hear... drumroll... 'you'll only get called by a better hand.' Wrong!

[async]

[ QUOTE ]

Usually, when I post something along these lines, I inevitably hear... drumroll... 'you'll only get called by a better hand.' Wrong!

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Highly unlikely given your position.

I calculated the ev for your move at +T122 or something like that, the vast majority of which is everyone folding. It's not even that high variance, simply BECAUSE everyone folds so often. But you'll go broke I think about 1/20 tourneys with this move. (I figure 3/20 call you and about 1 of those 3 wins, usually the overcards)

I did a more complicated and admittedly speculative calculation regarding a T150 raise, and think that even playing very conservatively with almost no skill postflop is good for at least +T97 with no risk to bust out. I think if you're aggressive or good at read, or your table has donks and you get more than 1 caller, that +ev shoots up and becomes a better choice, but I'd agree that trying to play the hand postflop, while likely more profitable if you have any skill, is also more +variance.

It would be interesting to see some people who have large hand histories compare their results playing TT this way vs a 3xBB+1x per limper method.

[ZeroPointMachine]

I do this fairly regularly. Gaining ~15% is my cutoff. I believe it is a good play at the 1000 chip tables as well(at least at the 50s).