FR .01/.02 on PS: big raise on river

Ludanto · #1 09-28-2006, 10:03 AM

Poker Stars / No Limit Holdem Ring game / Blinds: $0.01/$0.02 / 8 players / Converter

Stack sizes: Hero: $5 | UTG+1: $2.48 | MP1: $2.88 | MP2: $7.11 | CO: $2.12 | Button: $3.62 | SB: $2.10 | BB: $2.62

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with

Hero calls, UTG+1 raises to $0.12, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: ($0.27) (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.12, Hero raises to $0.5, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: ($1.27) (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: ($1.27) (2 players)
Hero bets $0.2, UTG+1 raises to $1.2, Hero ?

Thoughts: It is the second hand I played with villain. The first one he raised to 6BB from UTG. The hand displayed above happened 7 hands later. On the river I was pretty sure I had him so I thought he might call my little value bet. I was surprised by his raise. What would you put him on in this spot and what would you do?

PocketElevens · #2 09-28-2006, 10:36 AM

My money is going in on the turn.

he has like $1.80 left, id put him in and expect a call since he called your flop raise.

Dont worry about easing people in at this limit. If he has just a king he's not folding here.

allaboutmyfetti · #3 09-28-2006, 10:40 AM

I can't understand why you didn't bet the turn after c/rin the flop AND improving to top 2 pair ...

ontiltsoon · #4 09-28-2006, 10:44 AM

Why did you checkraise the flop and then check the river? I'm betting the turn for the pot or 2/3 of it, the river can flush or straighten so I can't see a check there...

kurto · #5 09-28-2006, 10:44 AM

Yuck.

Playing JK UTG 8 handed is so-so. Though the weaker your competition and the more passive your table, the more acceptable it is.

Checkraising the flop is bad. What did that serve you? If he raised PF with a hand like AK you're now handing him more money. Its better to lead into him.

Then, on the turn when you hit the best card you can have, you check. And you expect him to bet it for you AFTER you just checkraised him? Horrible.

Your river bet is pathetic. You might as well check it. Betting .20 into a $1.20 pot is horrible. And he could be raising you with a better hand or simply because you showed such incredible weakness on the turn and river.

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What would you put him on in this spot and what would you do?

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Its almost impossible to put him on a hand because (1) we don't know what his raising standards since you didn't include any of that information. (2) You played the hand so weird that he's probably as confused about what you have as you are about what he has.

He could be bluffing since you played it so odd. Or he could have been ahead of you the whole time. Who knows?

Ludanto · #6 09-28-2006, 10:48 AM

allaboutmyfetti, after he called the c/r on the flop I assumed that he holds a K in his hand. By not betting the turn I wanted him to think that I maybe backed out of some kind of bluff or that his (maybe) AK is good and he can bet it. If he would bet it on the turn I think I would go all in.

allaboutmyfetti · #7 09-28-2006, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
allaboutmyfetti, after he called the c/r on the flop I assumed that he holds a K in his hand. By not betting the turn I wanted him to think that I maybe backed out of some kind of bluff or that his (maybe) AK is good and he can bet it. If he would bet it on the turn I think I would go all in.

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You are way overthinking this and giving your opponents too much credit. Just value bet your strong hands to death, don't expect your opponents to bet it for you.

kurto · #8 09-28-2006, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
allaboutmyfetti, after he called the c/r on the flop I assumed that he holds a K in his hand. By not betting the turn I wanted him to think that I maybe backed out of some kind of bluff or that his (maybe) AK is good and he can bet it. If he would bet it on the turn I think I would go all in.

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After you checkraise someone, they're usually gonna slowdown unless they improve their hand or flopped a really strong hand. Hoping to checkraise them again is just bad. You only have 2 chances left to get him money in the middle. You not only declined to get more money in thereby limiting your winnings potential, you also gave a free card to outdraw you.

That was the worst river card for you since, if he was ahead of you on the flop and you got lucky with the turn suckout, he's now ahead of you again.

Ludanto · #9 09-28-2006, 11:02 AM

kurto, thanks for your thoughts. I see that I am a total beginner and I need to start to think about things that are obivious.
I c/r the flop because I know that it is hard to hit the flop. I've noticed that people on this limit call flop bets with much less than TP. By c/r him I wanted to make sure if he has the king or not. After he called the c/r and before the turn came I was sure that I was beat. While thinking that this guy might have AK I wanted to check the turn to make it look as if I give up. Seeing him check behind I thought that he had something but probably not the king (which is kinda contrary to what I wanted to find out with the flop c/r). I was very sure that I had him beat by a mile and I thought he wouldn't call more than this 20c on the river.

Edit: How much should I have bet the flop?

johnc · #10 09-28-2006, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
allaboutmyfetti, after he called the c/r on the flop I assumed that he holds a K in his hand. By not betting the turn I wanted him to think that I maybe backed out of some kind of bluff or that his (maybe) AK is good and he can bet it. If he would bet it on the turn I think I would go all in.

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You are way overthinking this and giving your opponents too much credit. Just value bet your strong hands to death, don't expect your opponents to bet it for you.

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I'll add that after your flop check-raise(???->FPS) it is pretty close to a mandatory turn bet - I believe a pot sized bet will either win it right there or serve as a value bet.