2/4, nine to the flop with AA...

Frank_In_Stein · #1 09-26-2006, 02:44 PM

This is from a 2/4 game at Mandalay Bay. The structure there is a single $2 blind (not that it matters, but jysk). The table was very loose and passive. A couple people were calling down to the river with anything for two bets or less. A couple others were apparently afraid to raise: in a previous hand, I bet an overpair of JJ to the river only to be called all the way by AA with no straight of flush draws on the board. So, it's very difficult to put some one person on a hand. Except for the JJ hand, I had just about folded everything else.

We're nine-handed. I have A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]in the blind. Everyone calls. I raise and everyone calls.

Flop (18 SB): 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]; I bet, seven callers.

Turn (13 BB): (6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]; I bet, two callers and then a LP raise.

How do I proceed here? I think it's pretty likely he has two pair but, given how the table has been, a set of queens is distinctly possible. Should I raise to get the other callers out? Should I just call to avoid having one of the two yet to act call my reraise and then have LP cap it (is that something I should be worried about?)? Should I fold, figuring that there's a good chance I'm going to have to spike an ace to win the pot?

There's another thing that I've been wondering since I played this hand. Was there a better way to protect my hand on the flop? The reason I didn't check the flop was because I was the raiser and I was worried that everyone would ckeck it down and see a free turn card. But, the result I got was still pretty bad, IMO... eight to the turn in a gia-normous pot. What I'm wondering is: which is better, to bet on the flop with what's possibly the best hand already or to check on just the hope that someone in LP will bet and that my check-raise will knock some players out? Which is worse for me here, betting and getting seven callers or checking and possibly having nine people see the turn?

Xhad · #2 09-26-2006, 02:49 PM

Call down unless two people get in a raising war. Folding on the turn for one more bet is insane, you almost have the equity to call even if you're folding a non-A river. Which you're not, if you're only paying one bet.

Your hand is played fine so far; you can't realistically protect on the flop but you did a good job of getting value out of your hand.

Hobbs. · #3 09-26-2006, 02:56 PM

if your read is solid then you are behind, but have odds to continue so you should call and hope to either spike and ace on the river or have the board pair. 3-betting does nothing for you if you know you're behind as your equity doesn't change by very much if you get the others to fold.

Mygtar · #4 09-26-2006, 03:25 PM

Raising will not get the callers out and off their draws, small pairs. Worse than that you may get re-raised if the guy does have a set or two pair. I would go into call-down mode.

No way to really protect your hand on the flop so betting is better than an absolute free card. With this board I do not see many passive players betting out after the pre-flop raiser checked for fear of your check-raise. This is how it goes sometimes at low LHE live.

Peace,
Mygtar

nooob · #5 09-26-2006, 03:43 PM

call down. standard.

Bob T. · #6 09-26-2006, 04:41 PM

There is no better way to protect you hand. Nobody is folding here, until its hopeless, and you should probably take the same approach once your in a hand. You are probably behind on the turn, but heck, you got AA. You could have as amny as 8 outs, call the turn, call one bet on the river if you don't improve.

If one of the smaller cards on the board pairs, I probably bet and call one raise. If an ace comes on the river, I think I go for the checkraise. Who knows, it might give one of the other chasers two pair, they might bet out, the set of queens reraises, and you get to threebet and spend the next lap stacking chips.

Does Mandalay Bay still have the best beverage service on the strip?

mrcunningham · #7 09-26-2006, 05:13 PM

Reraise on the turn, hope some of them drop out. If you get capped, call down unless the river is ugly, like a Q, a diamond, or a 3. Even though they are passive it is difficult to know what to put probable novices on, and their range may be wide, even for a raise.
Betting the flop was the right thing to do.

alul · #8 09-26-2006, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reraise on the turn, hope some of them drop out. If you get capped, call down unless the river is ugly, like a Q, a diamond, or a 3. Even though they are passive it is difficult to know what to put probable novices on, and their range may be wide, even for a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong. Probable novice will never raise with less than two pair, especially live. Just try to get to showdown cheaply.

To OP: you should play looser in a game like this, you will lose only playing big starting hands.

mrcunningham · #9 09-26-2006, 05:32 PM

Thinking about this, you're probably right. My first time playing poker was at MB and my total knowledge base was from the Lee Jones book (pre SSHE). At the time, I would not have raised anything less than 2 pair.

On the other hand, do you think AQ, KQ, JQ, TQ might raise you?

Dans Full · #10 09-26-2006, 07:19 PM

This is a problem I have all too often at my local b&m(2/5). I think you played it well on the flop, the lp raise was just unexpected. I would call down to the end unless a raising war starts up. You have respect for your aces, but not everyone else is smart enough to.