question about starndard raises in NL

[trontron]

hi together

i hope, you understand my question correctly. it's not about the amount of raising, it's just about "the language". (sorry for my bad english)

in NL, the standard raise is 3 times the big blind. does this mean, to raise to 3xBB or raise 3xBB?

an example:
Big Blind is 100 and i just want to make a standard raise (3xBB). will i put 400 chips in (100 PLUS 3xBB) or will i put 300 chips in (just 3xBB)? so does raising 3xBB mean to raise TO 3xBB or to raise 3xBB? (think, it's the latter one, but not totally sure).

thx, trontron

[KurtSF]

Normally the terminology refers to a raise TO 3xBB. You would put in 300 chips in the example provided.

There is no true definition, of course, so the meaning can change. And always be careful of doing anything too "standard". In micro NL games online I find a bet of 4xBB (400 chips in the example) to be more effective in limiting the field and use it regularly instead of a "standard raise". In pot-limit games a raise of the pot is pretty much standard, which when there are no limpers is 3.5xBB. A "standard raise" to 3xBB is weak in NL when there are 4 limpers in front of you. The situation changes the appropriate bet size.

But usually I hear a "standard raise" refered to as raising to 3xBB.

$0.02

[Acein8ter]

As mentioned above - If the BB is 100, 3xBB is 300.

Little bit OT, but:
People also put in an additional BB bet with every limper. (Provided that you have a top tier hand to do it with. Unless your PF bluffing)

Lets say that there are 2 limpers to you and your on the button w/KK. You can raise 3xBB + 2 extra BB bets for a total of 5BB's. This would be 500.

[trontron]

thx for the answers. of course, i won't always raise 3xBB. but i was just curious about the terminology.

@Acein8ter: i wouldn't do this. if i hold KK, i wanna play the hand and don't want to win PF. if i raise to 5xBB, i win the hand PF in a normal Micro-Limit Game.
of course it depends on the game (SnG or Cash or MTT and so on), but i really wouldn't raise my KK to 5xBB (at least not in a MicroLimit Game).

just my $0.02

[Splossy]

Phil Gordon mentioned varying his standard raise with position and raises say 3x in early 3.5x in middle then 4x in late - something along those lines anyway.

[smbruin22]

interesting question and something i'm never sure of either...

and now i'm totally confused...... casinos are one thing and books are another (and i find books/articles often aren't clear)...

phil gordon (book) and ferguson (FTP) are two guys who are quite clear... and they both like the smaller raises up front as you're playing much better cards.

[StregaChess]

I also view standard as fluid.

With blinds up to 100 I'm raising to 300
When the blinds reach 200 my raise is typically to 500 for pot control reasons.

Just something that's sort of flowed into my game over time.

With blinds of 400 I might only go to 900 (hmm... I guess I'm less sure about this one)

Basically for me the concept is, if they want to play they've got to have better than draw or else no brains.

[KurtSF]

3.5 BBs is not a bad take for KK with no risk.

I suppose the play is value versus variance: higher pay out weighed against higher risk. I'm not entirely sure your EV is higher this way: smaller pot, more opponents. Anyone? You will definitly have bigger swings however. I hope you can fold those Kings after the flop.

[The_Bankroll]

[ QUOTE ]
thx for the answers. of course, i won't always raise 3xBB. but i was just curious about the terminology.

@Acein8ter: i wouldn't do this. if i hold KK, i wanna play the hand and don't want to win PF.


[/ QUOTE ]

don't be afraid to bet your big hands aggressively. if your playing micro/small stakes, and raise 5xBB with a couple limpers, I imagine you'll still get some calls. I don't like playing big hands timidly in NL, but I used to feel the same way when I first started. trust me, you may not want to win the hand pre-flop, but you don't want to lose the hand post-flop either.