PF Play, how loose is too loose?

[ThunderEagle]

A little background. I started out last december playing .02/.04 limit on Stars, read GSIH and SSHE, and got better. A lot better. Moved up some limits, built a bankroll. Then I did a signup bonus on Party, and a couple of reloads, still playing well.

Well, that bonus thing is cool, and I started chasing. Well, this caused me to move up limits a little too soon, and on some of the tighter sites, my game really ran into a brick wall. I've still made money, but only because of bonus, my poker game has been loosing. In an effort to get back to basics, I've restudied GSIH and SSHE, moved back to PokerStars and I've started on a resurgance. Becaues of the move I get a much better selection of games, so I can get away from once I don't adjust well too.

Anyhow, this leads me to a recent session review where my reviewer felt I was too loose PF (and I felt he was way too tight in my review of his session). We also disagreed a little bit on our read of the table in the given session. I felt it was slightly loose, passive. He felt it was a weak/tight table. IIRC, the table had a 2.1 PFR%

Now, some of the hands in question was me limping QJo in EP and completing K9o in the SB. I know this is really loose, but as passive as the table was, I felt I was worth a risk. I also raised KJs from UTG that just about floored my reviewer (not from this site). I'm apt to do this on passive tables, yet throw it away on tight ones.

Everyone is a bit different, and I try to adjust my PF play to my read on the table (that whole taking off the training wheels thing).

[MrWookie]

Raising KJs UTG = standard.

Limping QJo in EP depends (usu. fold), as does completing K9o (highly dependent on # of limpers, and their positions).

[jrz1972]

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Now, some of the hands in question was me limping QJo in EP

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Definitely too loose.

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and completing K9o in the SB.

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Marginal. Depends on the number of limpers.

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I also raised KJs from UTG

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Fine.

[ThunderEagle]

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Raising KJs UTG = standard.

Limping QJo in EP depends (usu. fold), as does completing K9o (highly dependent on # of limpers, and their positions).

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Thanks for the reply. As with all answers in Hold'em, the correct one is, "it depends". I do usually fold QJo in EP, but my reviewer and I differed on our read of the table, so I guess that is going to influence any commentary on a hand.

[Abramovic]

You guys think limping K9o when in small blind is wrong?

I would almost always make this call (or raise if all had folded round). However the small blind is 3/5 of the BB in this game.

[jrz1972]

I'm thinking of a 1-2 game. In a 3-5 game, yeah I suppose auto-converting K9o makes sense.

[drzen]

It's good to adjust to the table but you also need to think about *why* your reviewer might have thought limping QJo from EP was too loose and *why* you think it's playable.

[OziBattler]

Thunder, I definitely recommend that if you have hands that you and your reviewer disagree upon that you post them here and let 2+2 be your judge, jury and executioner. Just be sure to provide reads.

as far as getting different reads at the table, well it can be a matter of intepretation but I actually find that when I review someone elses hands I pay quite a bit of attention to hands of interest where hero folded. So its possible that if hero was multitabling or playing at a site where you cant instantly see mucked cards (eg paradise) that reviewer and reviewee can get different reads.

I find that for just about every session I review there are always hands where I tell my review to post them to 2+2 cos I have no friggin clue.

I'd be saying fold QJo in EP to because it sucks to play potentially dominated hands OOP when you can likely face a raise. I tried to loosen up recently (ok so I was mini-tilting) and played a few k of playing marginal hands like you mention and I got myslef into a world of pain because I played crap postflop.

Im all for taking of the training wheels but if you dont have the discpline/nouse/skills etc to play marginal hands well postflop then you probably shouldnt...on the other hand, learning to play them well whilst the limit is cheap can also reap rewards later as you move up later. hmmm....

ozi

[ThunderEagle]

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It's good to adjust to the table but you also need to think about *why* your reviewer might have thought limping QJo from EP was too loose and *why* you think it's playable.

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Well, I know why from his session. My comments were all "your too tight, go ahead and limp this, you should make a steal attemp here, don't fold this hand, etc."

However, I also just moved back to Stars, and he was playing on FullTilt. I've noticed a little bit of a difference there in terms of Full Ring micro limit.

The QJo was probably too loose, but it was also a pretty passive table with a 2.1 PFR% IIRC.

[drzen]

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It's good to adjust to the table but you also need to think about *why* your reviewer might have thought limping QJo from EP was too loose and *why* you think it's playable.

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Well, I know why from his session. My comments were all "your too tight, go ahead and limp this, you should make a steal attemp here, don't fold this hand, etc."

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There's no "why" in there, dude. Did you, could you, explain to him why you felt he should do those things?

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However, I also just moved back to Stars, and he was playing on FullTilt. I've noticed a little bit of a difference there in terms of Full Ring micro limit.

The QJo was probably too loose, but it was also a pretty passive table with a 2.1 PFR% IIRC.

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I'd still fold it. I hate bad larrys. You flop a jack and everyone calls. Three people call you when you bet turn and river blanks. You think, hooray, calling stations provide great value to my larrys, and then they all turn over KJ.