Well [censored]... 3/6 Absolute JJ hand

[JJH3984]

UTG+1 is a bit manic and very loose 66/22/1 over 68
MP1 is 28/4/1.6 over 100
BB is TAG 19/14/2.17 over 100+
Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (16SB, 4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero ??.

[Darrone]

fold, BB isnt capping with less than jacks or AK, your roasted. with mp1's call, your close to pot odds to suck the two outer, but you have to take into account that your might be almost dead to kk anyway, id go with a fold, but im overly cautious here, so most people will prob say call.

[gobbledygeek]

I'm getting 18:1 to call and have approximately 3 outs (including backdoor staight) so I don't think I can fold out of this large pot quite yet. I raise (is this right?) and see what BB does; if he raises I think I'm done right now. If everyone calls then I hope for a J, 10 or 8 on the turn which will keep me around, otherwise I'm check/folding. Don't pay attention to me, I have no idea what I'm doing.

G-1.9BB/hourcluelessnoobG

[Bill C]

BB caps PF and the other two call the cap. BB's range probably puts him way ahead of you, and at least one of the others probably has you beat too. You're oop and may be drawing either dead or quite slim.

I'm gonna fold here.

Just my $.02 worth...

bill c

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm getting 18:1 to call and have approximately 3 outs (including backdoor staight)

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting c/r'ed often.

[ QUOTE ]
I raise (is this right?) and see what BB does

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's pretty much awful.

[gobbledygeek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm getting 18:1 to call and have approximately 3 outs (including backdoor staight)

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting c/r'ed often.

[ QUOTE ]
I raise (is this right?) and see what BB does

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's pretty much awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking is that if I simply call then BB would likely reraise with either AA/AK/QQ or KK, whereas if I raise he is less likely to reraise with only AA/AK/QQ. I kinda want to figure out where I stand with BB right now for 2 small bets; am I way behind his KK or can I still spike a J to win? If the pot wasn't so big I probably wouldn't fight over it so much, but this is a pretty big pot. Is this reasoning totally wonky? Maybe it is wonky because by raising I've already committed 2 bets, something I didn't have the odds to do?

GcluelessnoobG

[JJH3984]

raising is the worst of the three option IMO.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking is that if I simply call then BB would likely reraise with either AA/AK/QQ or KK, whereas if I raise he is less likely to reraise with only AA/AK/QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

If you only put him on hands you beat either way, and if you think he might 3bet without a set, why do you need to narrow down his range? Why are you bloating the pot this much with a hand that's almost certainly a 2-outer? Why is this better than folding?

[gobbledygeek]

Maybe I'm incorrectly assuming BB would 3bet if he had KK thus giving away his hand so that we could safely fold. But he'd probably just slowplay call instead (due to the board being fairly uncoordinated) so that would still leave me in the dark as to whether I can spike a J to beat him?

Just to confirm, if I was closing the action would this be a fairly clear call with 3 outs or so? Does calling no longer become an option due to the fact I'm not closing the action and the BB is likely to continue his preflop aggression, thus not giving me the correct odds to call?

Thanks for the input.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm incorrectly assuming BB would 3bet if he had KK thus giving away his hand so that we could safely fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is definitely 3betting some things that aren't KK (AK and AA don't typically cold-call here), and doing it often enough that we can't fold for one more bet yet. In fact, Villain might be more likely to cold-call with a set than a pair.

But forget all that. Let's assume your information is 100% accurate. If you call and get checkraised, you lose 2 bets, plus losing a few more the one time in twenty or so you turn a set. Whereas if you raise, get 3bet, and fold, you lose 2 bets. So you're paying a lot for this information even if you could trust it.

[ QUOTE ]
Just to confirm, if I was closing the action would this be a fairly clear call with 3 outs or so?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm indifferent to calling if you were closing the action. Which means I'd probably call because I don't like showing that much aggression preflop only to immediately give up. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]