Help me understand the mind of the OOP minimum raiser

miketurner · #1 09-18-2006, 10:42 PM

I don’t know of any reason to min raise, but even worse is... 2 to 4 limpers, & the SB or BB min raises. What could they have? There are no 2 cards that make this even a halfway descent play. What could they be thinking? What 2 cards could they have that makes them think they want more money in the pot out of position without getting rid of any of the limpers?
Feel free to expand on the mind of the min raiser...
Any insight would be helpful.

kash munni · #2 09-18-2006, 11:00 PM

In theory, if you are a better player than most of the limpers you want there to be more money in the pot and a minraise doesnt really change anything except the pot size in NL.

What stakes and game are u playing?

miketurner · #3 09-18-2006, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In theory, if you are a better player than most of the limpers you want there to be more money in the pot and a minraise doesnt really change anything except the pot size in NL.

What stakes and game are u playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly $5-$10, 27 & 45 player S&G’s.
And to clarify, I’m talking about early to mid stages of the game... when everyone has plenty of chips and a min raise will not typically cause a short stack to lose his mind and push with A2. I understand a few reasons to min raise at the end of a game, when M’s are low.

About that theory... that’s exactly what’s wrong with this raise here: You’re out of position, and nothing has changed except the pot is bigger. That is my thinking anyway, but what do you think?

steamboatin · #4 09-19-2006, 12:28 AM

Rolf Slotboom has a really good expanation on his DVD's. Unfortunetly, I don't understnd it well enough to explain it. I need to watch them a few more times.

I think the primary purpose is to unsettle players as it obviously bothers you and also to set them up for a big play later. It is complicated for me but he explains it very well in his DVD's.

It appears to be a play for deep stack poker, if they are shortstacked, they are probably just a Donkey.

Jon1000 · #5 09-19-2006, 01:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In theory, if you are a better player than most of the limpers you want there to be more money in the pot and a minraise doesnt really change anything except the pot size in NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Small pairs and suited aces that play extremely easily post flop.

Cryptorchild · #6 09-19-2006, 02:54 AM

I do it in cash games to tilt players or make them think I'm stupid. That's the only reason I can think of doing it.

miketurner · #7 09-19-2006, 08:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the primary purpose is to unsettle players as it obviously bothers you and also to set them up for a big play later.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Well, it doesn’t bother me at all if I’m one of the limpers... I either limped to see a cheap flop or I limped at an aggressive table, hoping someone reopened the betting for me. This min raise is cool with me in either of those cases. They have given me an easy decision.
It does, however, bother me in the BB when the SB does it. I have a decision I am not comfortable with... I have great implied odds to call with virtually any 2 cards, but I’m throwing those chips away most of the time. When an EP limper puts in a real raise after the SB reopens the betting... Oh, yeah, that really bothers me! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

If anyone fully understands Rolf’s explanation, or has one of their own... please share.

Kilillan · #8 09-19-2006, 08:19 AM

a lot of decent players do it to build a pot. They have 55 in a 4 way limped pot against a bunch of donks, they raise small OOP trying to get a larger pot incase they hit a set.

Just limp reraise that [censored] and steal all the dead mobney

miketurner · #9 09-19-2006, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I do it in cash games to tilt players or make them think I'm stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well done my friend.
I’m not really insulting you. If it’s your goal for me to think you are stupid (and your not), then you have done a great job. I don’t tilt at your move though, but maybe other players do.
What kind of hands do you do this with? Big hands where you want them to tilt off chips right there, or speculitive hands like small pp's where they might tilt off chips after you hit trips, or any 2 & you are just trying to get them on a slow burn for later?

miketurner · #10 09-19-2006, 08:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
a lot of decent players do it to build a pot. They have 55 in a 4 way limped pot against a bunch of donks, they raise small OOP trying to get a larger pot incase they hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I'm starting to think that is the standard reasoning, although I have seen showdowns where the OOP min raiser has had everthing from AA to suited connectors.