Value-bet on river with QQ?

[John Deere]

Just got back into the game after a year and a half out of the country, and am trying to make the switch to short-handed... this is my first post with content in a long time. Not enough hands to have reliable read on opponent.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4BB, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

This was a tough one, because it completed both the straight and the flush draws. It was especially tough because it gives me re-draw outs to both a flush and a straight as well. If I didn't have the re-draw, I could bet it easily and fold to a raise. But if he hit his hand and check-raises, I'm getting 7:1 to peel.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6BB, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero ...?</font>

I'm trying very hard to improve my value betting when I think that my hand will usually be best. It seems to me that if he just called the turn, I'm probably ahead here.

(In hindsight, maybe the turn is more interesting than the river.)

[b2coder]

I bet the river as played.

I think the turn is a bet as well because your hand is so strong, if you had QJ I might check behind on the turn and call a river bet.

[jph0424]

Bet turn/Bet river. Any J will be calling as well as a variety of A8, A9 type hands.

[Bullitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn/Bet river. Any J will be calling as well as a variety of A8, A9 type hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PokerSparky]

Easy river bet IMO. And I suck at betting for value on the river.

[aargh57]

Yeah, I think I fire again on the river. I like the way you played the turn for the reasons you stated. If you didn't have the redraws (Say KK no spades) what's our line here? I would still think bet but then you'd have an unpleasant fold if raised. However, this is still better than checking the turn and calling/betting the river because you'll lose the same if behind (although you risk getting bluff c/r'd but that would be very rare indeed) and win more when ahead.

[bobhalford]

I might have trouble betting the turn here, because I would fear getting raised. What happens if raised? Of course you call. But then if we don't make a hand on the river how do we respond to a bet?

[Guruman]

the problem with checking through the turn is that calldown hands lose one less bet, and maybe 2 less bets if our draw comes in and they recognize it for what it is.

I don't think checking this turn is an option.

[bobhalford]

[ QUOTE ]
the problem with checking through the turn is that calldown hands lose one less bet, and maybe 2 less bets if our draw comes in and they recognize it for what it is.

I don't think checking this turn is an option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that mean you are putting in 3 BB's on the turn and river when you are raised on the turn?

[DougG]

[ QUOTE ]
Does that mean you are putting in 3 BB's on the turn and river when you are raised on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I am. I would definitely bet the turn and call a raise given my straight and flush outs. On the river, I would probably convince myself that villain's turn raise COULD have meant a pair + a draw at least 1/9 times or so, and would probably call the river bet too.

Here, given that villain only called the turn and checked the river, I'm happily value-betting the river. If I get check-raised, I'm unhappily calling; pot's too large to assume that, more than 88% of the time, villain slowplayed both the turn (by calling when his draw hit) and river (going for the check-raise).