confused with Kings. (Bell 30/60)

CardSharpCook · #1 09-15-2006, 06:32 PM

I raise kings, and a conservative-looking Asain gentleman to my left 3-bets. Folded back to me, so I 4-bet. He 5-bets. There is no cap HU. I call.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check he checks.

Now, online, I take this as a clear sign that he has KK-JJ, and I'll either bet the turn or sexy the turn.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, he bets, I call.

River: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check...

I know I've butchered this hand, but I'd love to hear some thoughts.

Caldarooni · #2 09-15-2006, 06:35 PM

Do you have the K of clubs?

Why are you just calling the turn?

What hand is he betting that you beat on the river?

CardSharpCook · #3 09-15-2006, 06:39 PM

Remarkably, I don't have the king of clubs.

I'm not entirely sure why I just call the turn. The thought/fear I had is that he might be checking the flop with a set of aces, knowing that, given his 5-bet PF, I can get away from just about anything if he bets.

I don't think he is betting any hand that I beat on the river.

calidist · #4 09-15-2006, 06:40 PM

I would definately put him on JJ or QQ with a club, trying to pick up the pot on the turn. I think you can safely bet this river. If you have the K of clubs it does allow you to confidently raise the turn and lead the river even if you miss.

BenA · #5 09-15-2006, 06:45 PM

Have you been playing at this table for a while? Do you think this conservative-looking Asian gentleman thinks you might be raising light and would five-bet with less than QQ?

His flop check is strange and often some type of slowplay. Either that or he has KK-QQ and is afraid of a check-raise. In any case, it was a bad move on his part, and I think you should bet the turn. If he raises, I'd probably call with the Kc, or maybe even without it. As played, I bet the river and call a raise. Its not outside the realm of good possibility that he is holding AK, and we know now that KK is impossible.

CardSharpCook · #6 09-15-2006, 06:50 PM

This was maybe my 5th hand at the table, and the 3rd or 4th I've raised. Once, I showed down JTs from MP, another time, I folded the river after going 5bets on the flop with my OESD. So, yes, it is possible I have a laggy image at this point.

edit: All these are excellent points, and I'm well aware that I butchered this hand. If I could play the hand again, I'd check/raise the turn, fold to a 3bet.

Caldarooni · #7 09-15-2006, 06:52 PM

So as played.

I lead the turn. Or c/r.

I lead the river. And lose when he raises.

Joe Tall · #8 09-15-2006, 07:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: A T 3
I check he checks.

Now, online, I take this as a clear sign that he has KK-JJ, and I'll either bet the turn or sexy the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Live, it's sometimes the flopped nizzle.

[ QUOTE ]
I know I've butchered this hand, but I'd love to hear some thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you haven't. Check call the river too as betting will result in two things:

1. Getting raised by better hand.
2. Getting a worse hand to fold.

This check/call the river has a great way to confuse your opponents. Often you will not have to show your hand and will get shipped the pot.

BenA · #9 09-15-2006, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This check/call the river has a great way to confuse your opponents. Often you will not have to show your hand and will get shipped the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when do opponents muck the river after you check/call them?

The way I see it, by the river we can probably narrow villains range down to AA, QQ, JJ, AKs by the river. His odd flop check doesn't really help narrow this down, and neither does his turn bet since he could be trying to win the pot with QQ or something feeling confident you don't have Aces since you didn't lead the turn after a possible failed flop c/r attempt.

Basically, I feel we are good here enough of the time for a river bet/call. A river donk on that K might make him fold QQ-JJ, but I think its unlikely. Even if he does, that K might scare him into checking those hands anyways since he might realize that he has a far less chance of beating your 4-betting PF range (even if he thinks its a bit light).

CardSharpCook · #10 09-15-2006, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Since when do opponents muck the river after you check/call them?

[/ QUOTE ]

They do. Happened once in that session and 3 times in the past month or two despite my limited live play.