Dealing with LAG players

dneedle1 · #1 09-15-2006, 10:35 AM

A hypothetical hand.

Let's say its early in a major live tournament, deep stacks, Ms over 100. I limp in or make a standard raise with 55 in late middle position. Super aggressive player, Gus Hansen type playing LAG, raises. I call-- hu. Flop is 4 6 7 with 2 clubs, I have no clubs. What do you do?

I'm thinking the "simple" play is a big c/r, but to an LAG, doesn't that scream DRAW? Am I willing to semi bluff push on this flop, with 10 outs twice against AA with no clubs? How could this hand best be played against a very aggressive player.

4CardStraight · #2 09-15-2006, 10:42 AM

You have 10 outs 8 to a straight and the two fives, assuming he doesnt have 2 clubs which would dirty some of your outs, or already have a set, which is possible. I lead out the bet, slightly larger than half pot or pot, if villain calls i possibly fire again at the turn if i hit my outs, or if no club lands. The big C/R is not a good plan in my book. I prefer to bet at the pot and possibly fold to a shove, but honestly i think a bet takes this pot.

Also, leading the bet makes sense because you do have a hand here. You have a pair with open ended, and if he raises you anything other than a shove on the flop its likely a call. It does matter whether you limped or minraised possibly in putting villain on a hand, but with your description, i think a more accurate range for villain is (random) as opposed to (AA)

just my thoughts,
4card

RichC. · #3 09-15-2006, 10:59 AM

I stopped reading after you said to minraise.

dneedle1 · #4 09-15-2006, 11:04 AM

Rich that was an example, it was neither the point of my question, nor an indication that I'm a donk. You're right, I never min raise there, its either limp or 3+ bb raise.

SilverLining1 · #5 09-15-2006, 11:23 AM

Well, you could start off by telling me if Gus has position on you. Then you can choose between whether you limp or make the raise, since there is a big difference. Can't answer until you do.

dneedle1 · #6 09-15-2006, 11:27 AM

Fudge. I meant to say Gus was on the button. Sorry.

Let's go with limping in and gus raising.

Sorry, I'm a newbie poster. I'll get these sorts of details right in the future, and won't post stupid things like min-raising.

SilverLining1 · #7 09-15-2006, 11:42 AM

Post some stack sizes and this thread becomes good. I would even set up the hypo with #s. Stack sizes are supremely important; so is the size of the pot. Any good play can't operate without this information.

Check/call the flop. Keep the pot small. Betting here cues him into a small pair; if he reraises and you call, any club/straight card (including your 5) is going to slow him down anyway. Or, if he hit his flush/decides to rep it, you're decision is going to be quite expensive.

Calling adds to deception - maybe you are on club draw, maybe straight draw, maybe you are slowplaying trips, maybe you just think he's full of [censored], etc.

Depending on what turn is, re-evaluate. If you hit your straight, I say check/raise is probably optimal, it allows him to represent made straight himself; if he has flush draw and is playing it fast, you can get value out of raise too. Betting at this point would look too obvious. That is probably as far as the hand will go; if he calls, you obviously have to worry about a third club on the river.

Jeff76 · #8 09-15-2006, 11:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I stopped reading after you said to minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think minraises are necessarily bad if you're deep. depends on what your goal is.

mornelth · #9 09-15-2006, 12:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A hypothetical hand.

Let's say its early in a major live tournament, deep stacks, Ms over 100. I limp in or make a standard raise with 55 in late middle position. Super aggressive player, Gus Hansen type playing LAG, raises. I call-- hu. Flop is 4 6 7 with 2 clubs, I have no clubs. What do you do?

I'm thinking the "simple" play is a big c/r, but to an LAG, doesn't that scream DRAW? Am I willing to semi bluff push on this flop, with 10 outs twice against AA with no clubs? How could this hand best be played against a very aggressive player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a note - while this MAY scream a DRAW to, well, just about any semi-experienced player - it doesn't mean that he can call, especially if all he has is an overpair...

Now, AGAIN - depending on the pot size and stack sizes etc. - this may or may not be the right play. If we're really deep - we may want to take a line that makes us some serious money when we hit. If we rather shallow - then we're often happy to just take the pot down on the flop, since while we ARE a favorite over AA on the flop - we will not be on the missed turn, and te problem with LAG is that he will have to give some consideration to the probablity that you are betting or raising him rather light since, well, he IS a LAG and he probably DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING right?

kurtkatt · #10 09-15-2006, 12:49 PM

i think u got atleast two options here

bet3bet, not too bad. on that flop it should work out fine against many of his hands

if he is very aggro, check/calling isnt all bad either, let him bet his overcards. (one problem with this could be that he bets flop, bets turn, checks river and show 8 6c...)

anyway, i think a high pressure line is quite valid, its a dangerous flop for most of his hands thats has hit (some pair with sc´s , overpairs etc,) so u would have a quite good shot at getting him to fold a hand that beats u and if u don´t u still have plenty of outs to win it