trips turns into second best boat

MortenTA · #1 09-13-2006, 04:26 PM

standard 50$ villain

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($127.03)
Button ($48.04)
Hero ($57.32)
BB ($51.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($7) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1, Hero raises to $5, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($17) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $14, BB calls $14.

River: ($45) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB calls $29.45 (All-In), Hero ?

kbinder · #2 09-13-2006, 04:43 PM

It's very difficult for villain to put you on the ten on the flop and turn, as your actions match the line you would take if you had a big ace. But your river check isn't consistent with that play, so it's a good spot for villain to push.

I don't think a $1 flop bet is representative of a standard $50 villain. Given only the preflop and flop action, such a bet reeks of a frightened KK-JJ. I suppose it could also be a really donkish way to play AA, but that possibility is nil given the river card. I call the river.

TheCloset · #3 09-13-2006, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
standard 50$ villain

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I fold and think about all of the other chances im going to have to stack this guy.

Pokey · #4 09-13-2006, 05:14 PM

With an ace, this is an EASY call.

With a ten, this is an EASY fold.

You've told villain three times that you like your hand. Villain doesn't care. With KK/QQ/JJ villain isn't getting past the turn -- your bet blows him off his hand. With a strong ace or even AA, villain could raise preflop and is definitely continuing the hand on the turn. When the river gives him the nut boat or even quads, he pushes for value, knowing that the hand is good. Let it go.

Nick C · #5 09-13-2006, 05:24 PM

That certainly is a lousy river card, meaning the action on the previous streets sure did make it look like you were up against Ax. (Even the $1 flop bet, instead of being a fearful stab, could've been an effort not to chase, you know, your QJ out, because what fun would it be to win the hand immediately? Or in any event, it starts looking that way once Villain calls your big checkraise and your turn bet.)

So, on the river, the hopes you have are that Villain was being stubborn with KK-JJ or was optimistically chasing with KQ/KJ/QJ and is now bluffing the river, versus someone who's shown a lot of strength, because he has you on Tx and thinks you'll fold it.

I doubt that's what's going on, and I would grudgingly fold.

Spy Dog · #6 09-13-2006, 05:30 PM

I'm sure I'll get crucified for saying this, but I would rather bet something like $1.03 and fold to a raise instead of doing a straight-up check-fold.

bilbo-san · #7 09-13-2006, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I'll get crucified for saying this, but I would rather bet something like $1.03 and fold to a raise instead of doing a straight-up check-fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you would rather check-fold, but pay $1.03 to check?

You're first statement is correct, but I am too tired to nail you to the cross properly.

Nick C · #8 09-13-2006, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I'll get crucified for saying this, but I would rather bet something like $1.03 and fold to a raise instead of doing a straight-up check-fold.

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This idea amuses me, and I do think the tendency of Micro NL players to make tiny little trappy river bets with the nuts (or close to the nuts) does give the play a little bit of protection.

Working against this, however, is the possibility that Villain will see a $1.03 bet as weaker than a check and pounce (if by some chance we're still actually ahead, which seems doubtful to me in the first place).

Pokey · #9 09-13-2006, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I'll get crucified for saying this, but I would rather bet something like $1.03 and fold to a raise instead of doing a straight-up check-fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only tip in restaurants, not at poker tables. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Honestly, if you're going to make a blocking bet, you've got to at least go through the MOTIONS of making a bet. Unless you're willing to throw in $15 the odds that you don't get raised are ridiculously low. While I like the idea of a "confusion bet" that's an odd amount of money ($1.37 is MUCH better, though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ), I think if the absolute value of the bet is under $15 the weakness will outweigh the confusion and you'll still get trampled by value bets and bluffs.

The hand history speaks for itself -- even if you were ahead before the river (and I think you were), you're behind now. It's time to go, and I'm not wasting an extra $1.03 before I leave.

Just another example of why being OOP sucks hot sweaty monkey balls.

terencetsao · #10 09-13-2006, 06:43 PM

check fold!