Mansion Casino Upper/Lower:Do I have a gripe or was I just a retard?

[Gotmilk]

I really feel i have a legitimate complaint here, but I don't seem to be gaining any steam on the watchdog site. How do you guys feel?

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casi...ms-longish.html

I was a little embarassed to bring it here first as it was addressed in the thread but I hadn't read the whole thread.

[Blowup Doll]

I read that earlier, and while i sympathize with you for losing so much money, it is your responsibility to read the T&C of each site before doing their bonuses. It's an expensive mistake to make, but it still is your mistake. The T&C clearly says that a push means you lose and there's no way you'll get any money out of them unless they choose to be generous for some reason.

[NSchandler]

I can understand where you're coming from because they shouldn't star losing bets, but I don't think that means you deserve your money back.

The star is just a graphical aid, and you shouldn't be relying on it to determine whether you're getting your money back or not. You should read the rules and make sure they are paying out in accordance with them (you know this already I realize).

I do sympathize with you - had they not starred the pushes, you would have probably realized much more quickly what was going on. But them the breaks. Just happens sometimes when you don't thoroughly read the rules before playing.

Incidentally, if pushes did give your money back, that would reduce the house edge below that of O/E and everybody would have been bettting on O/U instead of O/E

[beeyjay]

so they give you $1k risk free and then you try to ruin their name all over the internet. you sir, are an idiot.

straight from their site:
[ QUOTE ]
Upper / Lower - You can bet on whether more balls will be drawn in the Lower (1-40) or Upper (41-80) half of the table. Choose which one you would like to bet on and use the 'Side Bet Multiplier' to decide on your stake.

If the numbers drawn in the lower and upper halves of the game are equal, the house wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
I can understand where you're coming from because they shouldn't star losing bets, but I don't think that means you deserve your money back.

The star is just a graphical aid, and you shouldn't be relying on it to determine whether you're getting your money back or not. You should read the rules and make sure they are paying out in accordance with them (you know this already I realize).

I do sympathize with you - had they not starred the pushes, you would have probably realized much more quickly what was going on. But them the breaks. Just happens sometimes when you don't thoroughly read the rules before playing.

Incidentally, if pushes did give your money back, that would reduce the house edge below that of O/E and everybody would have been bettting on O/U instead of O/E

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said in the other thread, this is akin to having a blackjack game where pushes lose but you don't find out until you lose a push. The rules are NOT posted on the Keno game itself; In a Las Vegas casino the rules would be posted for a blackjack game. The Nevada Gaming Commission would never allow such a deceptive video graphic result in a game.

I'm perfectly understanding of "I should have read the rules" mentality; however Mansion is not a fly-by-night operation, they are a large established casino that is trying to bring an air of legitimacy to online gambling. I qualified as a stupid gambler; their casino's should not be setup to trick stupid gamblers. It's perfectly fine to obviously short odds on certain bets, like the Big 8 in craps instead of buying the 8 or 6/5 Single Deck BJ in Vegas, but for a large operation it should not be acceptable to do it in such non-transparent fashion. If there are no rules on the table/game itself and no links to the rules from the table/game itself, as is the case on Mansion, it seems hard to allow a large non-shady company to get away with it. Whether I get my money back or not, Mansion should be getting heat for that.

[Blowup Doll]

Gotmilk, would you go play poker for the first time in your life for $1000s without reading the rules? Are the rules written on the poker tables?

Your argument that they should babysit you makes no sense. Rational people don't go online and gamble that much money without making damn sure they know the rules and the consequences. From your thread, it appears that you don't think much of the amount of money you lost, so i can understand your naivety, but that doesn't make the casino wrong.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
so they give you $1k risk free and then you try to ruin their name all over the internet. you sir, are an idiot.

straight from their site:
[ QUOTE ]
Upper / Lower - You can bet on whether more balls will be drawn in the Lower (1-40) or Upper (41-80) half of the table. Choose which one you would like to bet on and use the 'Side Bet Multiplier' to decide on your stake.

If the numbers drawn in the lower and upper halves of the game are equal, the house wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow I've answered that in the other thread. Did you look at the deceptive screenshots I showed? I'm not even trying to smear Mansion's name; I'm saying the way they have that one specific game set up is deplorable. Not only that, I kept giving them action on their sports exchange over the weekend. The frustrations lie in a.)Not getting e-mail responses from Mansion and b.) The rules are straight from their site but not easily found from the Keno game itself. I even did a cursory search for those rules, but wasn't too worried because the graphics were showing that the bet was not a push.

You shouldn't be so quick to jump on somebody for not reading the rules. Plenty of people don't read the rules. Even people who aren't complete morons in life. If the graphic shows I'm winning, why would I have a reason to suspect/need to read the rules. They call it a push straight up on the game and then indicate its a winner in their graphics; there is nothing ambiguous about that.

That would be akin to a blackjack game that says Dealer draws to 16;Stands on all 17s on the table, but in their printed rules says "Dealers hits soft 17s". What the video was showing was clearly different from what was printed in their rules. I don't really understand how you could attack that.

[Blowup Doll]

It does seem like the stars are a flaw in the system, but i doubt they were intentional. And it's certainly not enough to demand your money back for.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
Gotmilk, would you go play poker for the first time in your life for $1000s without reading the rules? Are the rules written on the poker tables?

Your argument that they should babysit you makes no sense. Rational people don't go online and gamble that much money without making damn sure they know the rules and the consequences. From your thread, it appears that you don't think much of the amount of money you lost, so i can understand your naivety, but that doesn't make the casino wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, like I said I would have had no problem with it if the Pushes never showed up as a Star; I would have noticed the problem right away. The fact is they were marking the bet as a Winner.

Say for example this was the case:

A casino offers a 100% Match Bonus. The bonus is clearable at Blackjack. They advertise a single-deck blackjack game. The Blackjack table appears like any other Blackjack table. You set it on Autplay, and watch it play. The Push is "starred" in the results column like the wins as if it were a winner. You press that autoplay button 100 times and have the worst session of blackjack in your life. You then read the blackjack rules that say pushes lose? You would be outraged. If it was a small casino outfit, you'd be angry at your stupidity for not reading the rules. If it were a large outfit, like Mansion you'd flip a lid at them because they are too good to do something like that to a customer.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
It does seem like the stars are a flaw in the system, but i doubt they were intentional. And it's certainly not enough to demand your money back for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Intentional or not, it is inexcusable for a large casino to have a system that could obviously deceive a customer. If i was your grandmother you'd feel bad for me. It shouldn't matter if I'm your grandmother or not. Even the language of "Push" indicated that they are "pushing your bet back". You can't hide behind contract language and terms and conditions all the time; whether or not I get my money back and whether or not they gave 5000 people $1000 free doesn't change the inexcusability of that "unintentional" bug.