Controlling pot sizes

[InternetJunky]

I seem to be losing a lot of pots lately that are far bigger than they should be given the hands I have (TPTK type of scenario). I'm really lost as to how to bet in such a way that I control the size of the pot without looking really weak to my opponents.

For example:
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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($21.95)
UTG+1 ($21.94)
UTG+2 ($35.75)
MP1 ($11.18)
MP2 ($13.75)
MP3 ($24.85)
CO ($4.40)
Button ($13.17)
Hero ($27.70)
BB ($5.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Button calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $1.15</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $1, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($4) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2.5</font>, UTG calls $2.50, Button folds.

Turn: ($9) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4...</font>



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$4 into a $9 pot against a TAG villian who called my flop bet. This is going to reek like weakness, but if I bet any bigger my river options are horrible and I end up losing far more than I ever should here.

How would you bet this hand?

[xwillience]

raise more preflop to 1.50/1.75.

flop bet is meh.

you should just check the turn. especially vs a TAG who is going to raise this weak bet a LOT. Your not in a really good spot here... your behind AK and AJ. JT/QJ/KJ probably isnt going to pay off another bet. and AT probably wont bet the river.

A stop-n-go works best here. If villain bets anythign significant on the turn Im very much considering laying it down.

[InternetJunky]

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raise more preflop to 1.50/1.75.


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My usual line is $1 + $.25 per limper. I actually raised to $1.25 here but the converter took out my SB.

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flop bet is meh.


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Should I check then? The whole reason I don't want to bet more is so I don't have to deal with a big pot on the river. I'd rather lose $10 than my entire stack.

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you should just check the turn. especially vs a TAG who is going to raise this weak bet a LOT. Your not in a really good spot here... your behind AK and AJ. JT/QJ/KJ probably isnt going to pay off another bet. and AT probably wont bet the river.


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Betting the flop, getting called, then checking the turn just seems to scream "ok, you busted me with my continuation bet, fire at will". Often if I don't lead the betting here I'm looking at a pot-sized bet instead of the smaller blocking bet.

[xwillience]

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My usual line is $1 + $.25 per limper. I actually raised to $1.25 here but the converter took out my SB.

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thats cool. but there are two limpers.

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Should I check then? The whole reason I don't want to bet more is so I don't have to deal with a big pot on the river. I'd rather lose $10 than my entire stack.

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no the flop is fine. meh = whatever = fine.

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Betting the flop, getting called, then checking the turn just seems to scream "ok, you busted me with my continuation bet, fire at will". Often if I don't lead the betting here I'm looking at a pot-sized bet instead of the smaller blocking bet.

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your assignment: put villian on a hand but be realistic. think about how that hand reacts to you betting/checking the turn. In other words, do some third (second according to TAP) level thinking. (thinking about what he thinks you have)

next PM me or hit me up on AIM and we can talk about the conclusions you came to.

[Pokey]

My line is *totally* different from yours, but yours is more "2+2" than mine.

I'd complete SB and check-raise the flop.

I've taken to raising almost never from SB and BB unless I have a super-good hand- and opponent-specific reason to do so. AQo is a speculative hand that either flops well or flops badly. OOP you're eminently floatable, even with a reasonably good flop. You're also poised to lose the most and win the least with the hand. Why build a big pot for someone else to steal from you?

When you just take the flop, you'll also find it easier to "escape" from bad flops. Furthermore, your play will sucker weak aces into thinking they are good, only to get hammered by your later raise. Also, if you do this often enough people will slow way down in trying to attack your blinds or raise you with air, which all pays off in the long run. Finally, if you check through just about every hand you play in these positions, you'll be able to take full advantage of your "right of first bluff" on a rag-rag-rag flop, which pays off nicely in the long run.

It's a strategy that works well for me, but I have no idea if it would work for others. Still, it's something to consider.

[xwillience]

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My line is *totally* different from yours, but yours is more "2+2" than mine.

I'd complete SB and check-raise the flop.

I've taken to raising almost never from SB and BB unless I have a super-good hand- and opponent-specific reason to do so. AQo is a speculative hand that either flops well or flops badly. OOP you're eminently floatable, even with a reasonably good flop. You're also poised to lose the most and win the least with the hand. Why build a big pot for someone else to steal from you?

When you just take the flop, you'll also find it easier to "escape" from bad flops. Furthermore, your play will sucker weak aces into thinking they are good, only to get hammered by your later raise. Also, if you do this often enough people will slow way down in trying to attack your blinds or raise you with air, which all pays off in the long run. Finally, if you check through just about every hand you play in these positions, you'll be able to take full advantage of your "right of first bluff" on a rag-rag-rag flop, which pays off nicely in the long run.

It's a strategy that works well for me, but I have no idea if it would work for others. Still, it's something to consider.

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somebody took Pokey's balls....

[Pokey]

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somebody took Pokey's balls....

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[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

"Total all the dollars you've ever bet playing poker. The large majority of those dollars should have been bet from late position. Only a small percentage of your total handle should have been bet from up front."

-Ed Miller.

Also, I seem to recall Josh Arieh saying something about AKo not being worth a raise preflop from the blinds, since the value of the hand is offset by the penalty of bad position. Mind you, he plays the nosebleed levels, but when you imagine all the things that can go horribly wrong with AQo OOP after the flop, I see little reason to bloat-and-hope.

As I said, it works for me. You young bucks can go betting all willy-nilly and get away with it; I prefer my slower, steadier, Lawrence Welk-paced betting style. I'm sure 4_2_it would agree with me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MyTurn2Raise]

I agree with Pokey as well

I'm a crazy lag in position

OOP, I have no testicles