TPTK facing 2 back to me on turn

kross · #1 09-11-2006, 07:20 PM

Both villains are LAGs, especially MP.

MP 66/31/1.68 over 80 hands. I've seen him 3-bet HU on the turn with bottom pair + flush draw, and also can bluff with the best of them.

CO is 48/30/1.5 over only 30 hands. He likes to get into raising wars with CO when they're in a hand together. Haven't seen enough of him to know if he's a real nutjob or not.

I guess my first question is, should I cap preflop? I thought so, since I've seen MP raising with all kinds of trash, and CO could also be 3-betting pretty light.

But my real question is the turn...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, CO 3-bets, Hero ???

Thanks!
-- Kevin

Crumpled Ear · #2 09-11-2006, 07:32 PM

The problem, of course, is being sandwiched between these knuckleheads, so it could get real expensive if you call and MP pops it again. Even so, given the history, I'd call it down. I am not so worried about MP, and there is a good enough chance that this is another one of COs attempts at a raising war or to get things heads up with MP.

kross · #3 09-11-2006, 07:41 PM

Exactly. Against either one of these guys, I call down in a heartbeat. Maybe even 3-bet it. But against both of these guys, it could get very expensive to get to showdown.

climber · #4 09-11-2006, 07:49 PM

sounds like your preflop cap made it more difficult for you to get info from these guys.

theflyingcow · #5 09-11-2006, 08:50 PM

Wow, this is indeed a really tough hand to comment on, sandwiched between these maniacs here. There's a good chance that you're still ahead in the hand and if you can rely on your read, i.e. MP raises with air and CO likes to get into a raising war probably to isolate MP, I'd cap and bet a non-spade river. If faced with the same result, I'd consider folding. The problem is, this may be a spew and given both players' wide range of hands, holding a 2 is definitely not out of the realm of possibility. Really tight spot. Good hand for analyzing.

Caddy_4_Life · #6 09-11-2006, 10:03 PM

I fold. If there was 0% chace either had a deuce and 0% MP would cap then I would call.

Caddy

kross · #7 09-11-2006, 11:46 PM

I folded on the turn. River was 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP lead the river with A6o, and CO called with TT, and I wanted to break something. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Crumpled Ear · #8 09-12-2006, 10:44 AM

When I'm in hands with maniacs like this, I tighten up and wait for better hands, waiting for something strong enough to play with. Then, when I hit, unless the board gets VERY scary, when the raising war starts, I grit my teeth and go to the river.. I find that more often then not, I come out ahead. The key is that you have to be sure youre dealing with true maniacs. It doesn't take long to identify them. You also have to be willing to endure some big swings playing this way.

gopnik · #9 09-12-2006, 12:21 PM

fwiw, I'd never fold this against two maniacs. Probably call down all the way.

TheHip41 · #10 09-12-2006, 12:48 PM

These guys are liable to have just about anything here. The turn bet/raise/3bet usually means doom for your hand, but really, you probably have the nuts here. One of them probably has a draw, the other probably has q-x. Sure, sometimes they will have KK, or a 2, but man, I just can't see myself folding here. I'd just call the 3bet, and hope it doesn't get expensiveon the river.