how to beat nl400? (LC)

therockofgibraltar · #1 09-11-2006, 03:38 AM

any tips to nl400??

I was marginally winner (4-5ptbb) on nl200 and I had ~25 BI to nl400 and decided to take a 3BI shot. When I first started I was thinking "this is a [censored] goldmine". I mean every single player had VPIP > 30. Most of them 40-50. Everyone had PFR > 15, mostly > 20 tho. Table averages were usually 30-40/15 or something. I am 19/14 after 1500 hands btw. (W$WSF% 35, went to SD 25, Won at SD 57, agg.factor 3.2/1.6/0.9 = 2.25)

Well, after 1500 hands +/-0 poker I have started to think maybe this ain't a goldmine LOL I guess the players are very good LAGs, not morons playing 35/25.

Anyway, any tips to beat this limit??

One thing I have noticed is that ppl bluff/2nd/3rd barrel a lot more than in nl200 because I guess they know the concept "folding equity". They push with MP, draws etc. against pf-reiser --> if you have TP/overpair, you pretty much have to go with it if it is HU and normal stacks. So that thing in mind, I have tried to play good hands (tight/nitty style) and if I flop good, I am willing to go all the way.

Second thing I noticed is that c-bets have no value at all. 2nd barrels have a bit more. Every single player calls flop bet HU against pf-reiser with any two, trying to take the pot away on turn. And usually they are right, pf-reiser missed (duh!) and is c-betting with air. What I tried to do is usually only c-bets the goods and c/r the turn. Sometimes I just checked the flop with good and raised when they bet. Anyway the main point --> no c-bets with air. good/bad?

Third thing is that MP is much more valuable than in nl200. In nl200 if someone is betting 3 barrels he usually have it. Here, he probably wont, if you have been just calling and showing weakness. I mean KT2 board, they might bet all the way with 77 and you just keep calling with JT. What I tried to do is exactly this. Go to SD with marginal hands against agg. players / small bets. Thats why my went to SD is so high (25).

I am back to nl200 now to grind a bit but soon another shot. What things should I keep in mind then????

I play in Stars btw.

LegallyBlind · #2 09-11-2006, 03:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, after 1500 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

this is an absurdly small sample, play AT LEAST 10k hands before drawing any kind of concrete conclusions

Nielsio · #3 09-11-2006, 03:42 AM

You should probably make larger CBs. Especially oop.

KingGordy · #4 09-11-2006, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, after 1500 hands +/-0 poker I have started to think maybe this ain't a goldmine LOL I guess the players are very good LAGs, not morons playing 35/25.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL 1500 hands of break even poker? I agree with most of your post and have experienced the same things you have, but [censored], it took me 10 buy ins and 5K hands before I decided I couldn't beat it (and even after that I still think I can). Stick with it. Seriously 1500 hands is like one fing session.

dtan05 · #5 09-11-2006, 03:56 AM

cbets work a lot for me, how big are yours?

therockofgibraltar · #6 09-11-2006, 03:59 AM

my c-bets are 2/3. On A-high flops OR paired flops, a bit smaller.

yeah, I know 1500 hands ain't nothing. It is 3 session tho and everytime those things I mentioned was giving me a headache.

dtan05 · #7 09-11-2006, 04:04 AM

try c-betting 3/4 or 4/5

viper930 · #8 09-11-2006, 04:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, after 1500 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

this is an absurdly small sample, play AT LEAST 100k hands before drawing any kind of concrete conclusions

[/ QUOTE ]

mlagoo · #9 09-11-2006, 04:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, after 1500 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

this is an absurdly small sample, play AT LEAST 100k hands before drawing any kind of concrete conclusions

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

well this is kinda silly -- i mean, ultimately, if you play 100k hands of losing poker at nl400 just to find out you're a losing player, well, you've lost a lot of money.

i think 10k-20k hands is a good number. if you get through those and you are still struggling/can't seem to adapt, then it's time to try and figure out why. 3 sessions/1500 hands really is just nothing at all, and you really can't draw any conclusions from it. maybe it seems like people are two-barreling a lot and it turns out they just had hands over that 1500 hand sample. you gotta play more.

i can understand how it can be frustrating, because when you are losing/breaking even (especially while moving up), you often stop to question whether you're really beating the level you're playing at. ultimately, the only REAL way to tell is to play a ton of hands. another way is to post a lot and try and get advice, and yet another way is to hire a coach with experience at those levels who will advise you.

anyway, good luck.

therockofgibraltar · #10 09-11-2006, 04:31 AM

This is what I mean. They never fold A-high or middle pairs. How the [censored] do you beat these guys?? Just nitty and wait hands (middle pair is good) and valuebet/push I guess.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($175.60)
Hero ($360.20)
Button ($421.60)
SB ($373.10)
BB ($463.65)
UTG ($484)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $16, 2 folds, BB calls $12.

Flop: ($34) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24, BB calls $24.

Turn: ($82) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $47, BB calls $47.

River: ($176) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $176

Results in white below: 
BB has As 5s (two pair, fives and fours).
Hero has Jc Kd (one pair, fours).
Outcome: BB wins $176. 
NICE CALL BUDDY!

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($205.30)
SB ($412.75)
BB ($245.50)
UTG ($700.60)
Hero ($416)
CO ($441.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, 3 folds, BB calls $12.

Flop: ($34) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24, BB calls $24.

Turn: ($82) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero calls $20.

River: ($122) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $36, Hero calls $36.

Final Pot: $194

Results in white below: 
BB has 2c As (one pair, kings).
Hero has Td 9d (flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins $194. 
WHAT WAS HE THINKING ON THE FLOP?