How do you play sets on a wet board HU OOP?

JackAll · #1 09-10-2006, 10:38 AM

Say you call a pf raise OOP with 66 and flop is 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Here's some lines I've used

1. C/r flop - I used this for a while, but has too much FE.

2. Lead flop - I used to use this, but missed out on c-bets all the time. I also know you should play your draws the same way, and I would bet/3-bet draws HU, but I avoid speculative stuff OOP in raised pots, so this just doesn't occur in my play!

3. c/c flop and c/r turn - Calling a wet flop looks a lot like a draw and wehn you call the turn, they want to get rid of you there too when the draw doesn't hit and will often fire again. Then they call ur all in thinking u have a draw. And by then the pot is large and hard for them to fold. This allows a free card for the turn, but this is less often a draw for a pf raiser, and a draw only hits 1/5 times on the turn.

I'm particularly interested in the fact that I should play it like I play my draws, but I don't have draws in a raised pot pf. Is there a way to resolve this? Should I play draws OOP? My variance is too damn high and my post flop play is weaker than my pf play, which is why I avoid it.

If I led out on the flop after calling a raise pf more often, I would prefer that option, but I really don't ever do that, which I think might be the problem.

JA

xwillience · #2 09-10-2006, 10:41 AM

i lead like.... 99% of the time. especially when on a drawy board. you need to get value out of those drawing hands and why would you want to give them a free card?

Margon · #3 09-10-2006, 10:42 AM

I think that a 1/2 pot bet into the PFRer will help you build your pot. It could also be looked at as you trying to price your own draw. If you get raised, then I like to call and then C/R the turn. After that the action becomes very opponent dependant.

Margon

JackAll · #4 09-10-2006, 10:49 AM

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i lead like.... 99% of the time. especially when on a drawy board. you need to get value out of those drawing hands and why would you want to give them a free card?

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Like I said, I would like to lead, but there are not situations where I lead currently, so that would be a pretty big read on me.

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I think that a 1/2 pot bet into the PFRer will help you build your pot. It could also be looked at as you trying to price your own draw. If you get raised, then I like to call and then C/R the turn. After that the action becomes very opponent dependant.

Margon

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Nice idea, but way too readable unfortunantly.

Dot_the_Bot · #5 09-10-2006, 10:51 AM

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If I led out on the flop after calling a raise pf more often, I would prefer that option, but I really don't ever do that, which I think might be the problem.

JA

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just reading your question is helpful to me. I like #3 the most- but have the same problem.

Mainly, I like to c/c the flop, and then lead the turn for half pot with draws OOP, but I dont like that line with the set. Then, #3 is very similar to c/c;lead with a draw. How many players would notice I was leading the turn for half pot sometimes, and c/r'ing other times? I would notice that in another player- so I imagine many would get that it was a tell?

And another thing about #3 is the opponents that check behind. Open the doors for me to "bluff" the river if all draws miss?

matrix · #6 09-10-2006, 11:02 AM

I only ever check a flopped set to a villain if I am 100% sure he is going to bet a decent amount of the flop.

Just lead the flop for ~2/3 everytime with a flopped set(or whatever size your normal CB is) - call any flop raises and try to get all-in on the turn if you can.

c/r flop will fold most villains (very bad)
leading flop will get called by a pfr often - if he has a good hand (like an overpair) he'll usually raise and we have a great chance of stacking him, if he folds he had nothing and the most we would gain by checking to him is one measly CB
c/c flop and then c/r turn has even more FE than c/r flop and is possibly the worst of all 3 lines here. and if opponent checks behind it's an absolute total disaster.

We have a SET !!! - with 100BB's we want to get all the money in the middle everytime (barring any truly ugly boards like 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush with no pair)

On the rare occasions where the pfr is aggro but is also likely to fold the flop if led into I like c/c flop here and leading turn with the idea of b/3bet all-in. This comes up very rarely tho and leading is usually much better.

JackAll · #7 09-10-2006, 11:11 AM

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Just lead the flop for ~2/3 everytime with a flopped set(or whatever size your normal CB is) - call any flop raises and try to get all-in on the turn if you can.

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I'm not the pf raiser ... so there is no c-bet from me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

So what other hands should I be leading the flop with after calling a raise in the blinds so they can't tell that everytime I do it, it's a set?

Acein8ter · #8 09-10-2006, 11:11 AM

I wouldn't check this flop w/a diamond draw. IMO, it's best to lead 3/4 pot and see where it goes from there. Don't give him odd's to draw out on you.

You called a PF raise, so their could be the possibility that your up against a higher set... (Unlikely, but it happens)

JackAll · #9 09-10-2006, 11:15 AM

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I wouldn't check this flop w/a diamond draw. IMO, it's best to lead 3/4 pot and see where it goes from there. Don't give him odd's to draw out on you.

You called a PF raise, so their could be the possibility that your up against a higher set... (Unlikely, but it happens)

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All the money is going in against AA/KK or a set anyway. So none of the lines really matter as far as they are concerned. I'm more concerned about all the other situations.

JA

matrix · #10 09-10-2006, 11:18 AM

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I'm not the pf raiser ... so there is no c-bet from me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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OK it's not a C-bet - butlead the flop for whatever you would normally lead if it WAS a c-bet. i.e. whatever size your flop bets have been up to now in this session - bet that much.

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So what other hands should I be leading the flop with after calling a raise in the blinds so they can't tell that everytime I do it, it's a set?

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unless you are playing $200NL + I wouldn't worry about what he thinks you have - most players look at their own cards and thats as much thinking as they do.

I'd lead into a pfr with any strong hand 2pair, set, overpair, 10+out draw. If I think pfr is raising light and CBing too much I'll do it with air as well.