(11$) Two small stacks all in, should I call?

[jii]

Early stages of single table tournament, level 2.


Betfair, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)

UTG (t1247)
UTG+1 (t1015)
MP1 (t817)
MP2 (t843)
MP3 (t2600)
CO (t342)
Hero (t1810)
SB (t933)
BB (t393)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, MP3 calls t30, CO calls 30, <font color="red">Hero calls t30</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to t369 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to t312 (All-in)</font>

pot t810, hero ??


P.S. Forgive me if there are some typos in there. All the Cryptologic hand converters that I tried crashed miserably, so it's all manual work...

[wiggs73]

fold.

[jii]

Why is it a fold? What hands do you put BB and mysterious CO on?

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

/word

[Prodigy54321]

OK, CO does not have a high PP although the original raiser might. It just takes one of them having a hand like AJ, AT, KJ, KT, QJ, or QT or a high PP to make this a bad call. It is indeed close given almost 3:1 in the pot, bt It's not worth it.

I'm not sure on the exact math, maye someone else could help you with that

[PokerIsLife]

you should fold because your hand is played because of it's implied odds, and since they are both in, you're not going to get paid if you hit. So you're starting behind preflop and don't win anymore post flop.

[jii]

[ QUOTE ]
It is indeed close given almost 3:1 in the pot, bt It's not worth it.

I'm not sure on the exact math, maye someone else could help you with that

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it's close, but can't be sure my self either.

Some odds to help (no, this is not the math you requested

Heads up J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] has following winning percentages:

A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 32%

Seems that domination is not that bad after all.

[Prodigy54321]

you also have to consider TT+ in the original raiser's range, not it the callers since he limped originally. the raiser IMO is very likely to have you dominated and the called a little less likely but still likely. If you are not dominated and are up against say A9 and 77, you are still very close on odds. this is the best situation, and it's close.

Even if this call is slightly +EV, you should not call because you will have greatere +EV from just having those chips. (assuming you are one of the best players in the tournament - credit:Sklansky)

[codewarrior]

Why get involved?

[jii]

[ QUOTE ]
you also have to consider TT+ in the original raiser's range, not it the callers since he limped originally. the raiser IMO is very likely to have you dominated and the called a little less likely but still likely. If you are not dominated and are up against say A9 and 77, you are still very close on odds. this is the best situation, and it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need equity of 31% to make this tEV+.

Example you gave, not even close:

31.5328 % { 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] }
27.7681 % { A:clubs:9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] }
40.6991 % { J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] }:

Even with BB having TT it's EV+ (of course JJ kicks me to that private place):

42.2703 % { T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] }
24.9582 % { A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] }
32.7715 % { J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] }

Following drops me to negative:

41.8904 % { 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] }
31.8946 % { K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] }
26.2150 % { J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] }

With CO dominating me, and BB having AK, I'm just below break even.

55.6759 % { A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] }
14.2479 % { K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] }
30.0761 % { J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] }

Ok, I can't really say that this would be EV+ call even in pure chips, but somehow the odds of this hand don't seem to be what they look like at first glance. Or maybe I'm just obsessed.