Has limit ruined my NL game?

[Abramovic]

I used to be solely a NL holdem STT player, and made solid consistent, although fairly slow, profit. I have since taken up limit ring, and feel Im not as good a NL tournament player as I used to be. I feel that ring games have tightened up my tournament play.

Has anyone else experienced this and is there a way to fix this?

Thanks

[samsdmf]

Just stick to Limit then? However Id say that limit improved my NL game hugely- it was only when i started limit I realized the huge huge fundamental mistakes I was making when playing NL- Although I havnt read it its pretty much standerd thought that Kill Phil will get you back winning again.

[AaronBrown]

In the long run you're a better player for knowing more games. If you play one game at one limit structure, you can learn to do things without understanding why they work. That can lead to disaster against a better player than you're used to, or just if something changes. Stretching yourself forces you to figure out things, which pays off eventually.

[nuts]

at least you can work out pot odds now [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Stretching yourself forces you to figure out things, which pays off eventually.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general I find the idea of "messing up one's game" to be valid only in the short term, or for an unthinking players who does everything by rote.

Cf. "You'll mess up your game by practicing with play money." Not if you can adapt from extremely loose to tighter games.

[PokerZombi]

Tourny play and cash play are very different. Limit and no limit are different too.

I play NLH cash games mostly. I think the biggest difference is with tournys you have to make a 'bankroll' decision on each hand. Unlike cash, once you've chosen your limit you're out to maximize EV at every opportunity. In tournys I find you have to play weaker than cash in some sense because you have to give up +EV opportunities if it takes out too much of your stack. (e.g. drawing at a big pot when blinds are high). In tournys you need chips to make chips so I think a big part is playing the optimal opportunity set depending on your stack size.

I can see how playing limit can mess you up your NL a bit. Starting hand standards, bluffing, playing for implied odds. etc. I suggest you cont to play both. You should also try limit short handed. I find it more interesting than fullring. You get alot of experience playing the blinds aggressively, playing position effectively with weaker holdings.

[BJK]

Great posts by Aaron Brown and Broadway.

I'd like to add just a bit.

I've been through a lot of games trying to figure out which game I'm best at and which game I like the best. I've found out that I like MTT's the best, but I suck playing them. I've found out that I'm the most skilled at a full table LHE game, but I find LHE boring, and I become subject to being a victim of the "boredom tilt". I've found a happy medium playing NLHE ring games, where I not only get the best of both worlds, but have to adapt an entirely different strategy to win.

I play mostly NLHE online, and my B&M trips have been sporatic lately due in large part to my online success (perhaps merely "running good", but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough). I'm restricted to playing MTT's and LHE in the B&M, so I was a bit nervous about my return to the B&M a couple of weekends ago.

Weekend number one took some adjusting. I found myself trying to buy pots too much in situations where it will usually work in a NLHE game, and I found myself being too passive when I was fairly confident (but not certain) I was beat. My second weekend, I concentrated on those two areas, and I concentrated on analyzing the difference between games in every hand I played. The end result was one of the three or four best nights I've ever had playing live.

I have to agree with Broadway wholeheartedly. You will experience some short term downfalls if you switch games a lot. You may experience some adjustment stages when switching between games. Long term, each new game you learn will make the others you know easier to beat.

Now, if you are experiencing the opposite long term, I suspect what happened is rather complex. You probably found a leak or two in your tourney game, and by fixing those leaks, other leaks became more pronounced. For instance, a LAG may be raising too much preflop. However, by raising less preflop, he is making the fact that he calls too much a much bigger leak.