What do you do here?

[l3auble]

No notes or stats on villain, he had just joined game.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero..

[Lunar Tweak]

damn tough spot. i think folding is the right play. i don't think we're good 1/6 of the time (calling turn and river). i mean you capped PF, raised flop, and he still donk's the turn. the only rational hands we beat is AQ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], AJ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 99-JJ trying to make a play.

but i wouldn't hold it against someone calling down an unknown here. (as i'd probably do it in the heat of the moment, too [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

[BenA]

I'm pretty sure I'd call down. That K really sucks, but you are getting effective odds of 5:1 (2 calldown bets to 10 in the pot). I most definitely have seen people play JJ and TT this way. His turn bet after calling your flop raise does not nescessarily indicate that he has AK, KK, or AA. Sometimes its trying to keep their flop overpair holding up, sometimes they've got it, but you have no reads and its 3/6 PokerStars. I dunno, I don't think calling down is so bad. All other posters, please correct me!!!

[Allday Everyday]

FWIW, I'm with you on this one BenA. I'm calling down. Though I'm also unsure if it's the correct thing to do.

[ QUOTE ]
I most definitely have seen people play JJ and TT this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'll often bet-fold JJ and TT in similar spots against a thinking or tight player.

The only time I'd fold the QQ would be against a predictable player who wouldn't make a play like this. Not against an unknown.

You won't always have to call the river too. Also, I suppose there would also meta-game benefits in calling down. However, they would be slight at this level.

I too would like to know if it is a mistake to call down as a no read default play.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call &amp; spike a Q on the river.

Seriously, he probably does have AK here. The thing is, you're getting enough in pot odds to call down in the hopes that he's bluffing with a worse PP or that he's just a retard firing away with any two cards. So you call down, and if you're not good or if he outdraws you on the river, you make a note &amp; move on to the next hand.

[DeliciousBass]

I suppose I call this down.

Tough hand to play because the vil just arrived and we have no idea what he's willing to three-bet with. He's also taken the lead at every street and so I would imagine that we're probably beat...but stranger things have happened.

[gobbledygeek]

* spewing noob grunching *

Call down from here? Unlikely he has AA or KK as he probably would have reraised the flop. AK and KQs are certainly possible scary hands (doubtful that you'd 3bet 88/66/22 preflop?) but so is beatable AQs, AJs and perhaps A10s. I also really want to see the new players hand as cheaply as possible.

GcluelessnoobG

[l3auble]

Thanks guys. I ended up calling down and he had AK just like I thought.

[You're No Daisy]

Edit: Sorry...I began my response at 12 noon and got distracted for 30 minutes or so. I see now that my reponse came after our Hero told us what villain was holding. Sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
No notes or stats on villain, he had just joined game.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero..


[/ QUOTE ]
This sucks! It seems everytime we hold Kings an Ace hits, or when we hold Queens a King hits. IMO, you call it down to the River unless another spade hits. The problem is we know nothing about villain yet. Leading out the betting on the Flop could just be a standard continuation bet and the bet on the turn might be villain's way of seeing where he stands with 99-JJ. That's the best case scenario.

Here I'm concerned with villain holding A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or any AK for that matter, and likewise holding KQs and getting lucky on the Turn. If villian is holding AK, the continuation bet on the Flop is pretty much standard. If, in fact, he is holding A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], he has the back door flush draw which makes the continuation bet even more reasonable. The turn card is what troubles me...higher rank and potentially gives villain more outs. That's why I don't mind calling the Turn and seeing the River where we can easily fold if the third spade hits. Obviously folding the Turn saves us money here if we're beat, but we don't know if we are or not. If we believe villain is drawing with a suited AQ, AJ, AT, or has 99-JJ, calling the Turn and seeing the River isn't so bad. Good post!

Adam
Poor soul, he was so high-strung. I'm afraid the strain was more than he could bear.

[alul]

It really looks like AK here. Without reads I'm folding.

Edit: Oops, I didn't notice that you've posted the results. Am I good or am I good? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]