Std Laydown?

l3auble · #1 08-31-2006, 11:45 PM

Villain is 37/15/0.92 and has turn aggression 4/10 over 200 hands. Despite this, he had only CRaised turn once.

std laydown?

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero...?

Results

River: 3s (12.17BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

Other two opponents went to river and MP2 who Checkraised turn had QT for a pair of Tens, other guy had 88.

I put him on at least 2 pair and probably a flopped nut straight and couldn't see how I could possibly be ahead despite such a big pot. Outs are also tenuous since even if he has 2 pair I don't know which twot hey are.

Allday Everyday · #2 09-01-2006, 01:43 AM

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Std laydown?

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What do you mean by std? Personally, I don't like this laydown.

IMHO, you are actually likely to be ahead here. I think you should have called the raise.

I know the MP's stats seem passive, however if he's playing 37% of hands, he won't often get a chance to get aggressive. That is, 0.9 AF isn't passive with a VPIP of 37. So, there is no reason to put him on anything really good at this stage.

Since you didn't get a chance to 3-bet or cap preflop, he'll have little idea you have a 'monster' like QQ. I think there is a good chance he has a simple T and thinks it is good. I'd love to get a chance to call here.

Xhad · #3 09-01-2006, 01:53 AM

Yeah, this laydown is about as good as an STD.

BenA · #4 09-01-2006, 02:44 AM

Bad laydown. Your villain has wierd loose stats and in a pot that is becoming rather nice, your overpair is good plenty of the time. It looks like he c/raised the field for value, but that does not mean he has 78, TT etc... way more than enough of the time. Call getting 11:1 (possibly 12), and call a river too (unless a really bad card hits)

And for future reference, I don't think that the common acronym for 'Sexually Transmitted Disease' is a great abbreviation for 'Standard.' [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Harv72b · #5 09-01-2006, 04:11 AM

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he had only CRaised turn once over a miniscule hand sample.

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FYP. No way do I lay down here. If you're that concerned about his alleged passivity (his stats make him look pretty aggressive, though), then just call down. If the turn was an 8 or 3, then I could see laying your overpair down.

Also, you really shouldn't include results in your initial post. I didn't look at them, but some people have their browsers set so the white text thing doesn't work, and it's hard to give objective advice when they have more information than you did during the hand.

Gazzbut · #6 09-01-2006, 06:00 AM

Looking at it I thought it was fairly likely villian may have had two pair with something like 65c or something. Maybe TPGK, A set and a straight are less likely. This gives you somewhere between 0 - 6 outs if you are behind so lets say 4 outs. There is obviously a good chance that your hand is good at this point so add another 3 outs for a total of 7. You are likely to get 7/1 odds to take this to showdown so its a fairly easy call imho.

Haupt_234 · #7 09-01-2006, 09:24 AM

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Std Laydown?

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No, call down. AT/KT or other hands you beat could be played this way.

Haupt_234

James. · #8 09-01-2006, 10:29 AM

is Std an abbreviation for "stupid" or "standard". [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] calldown.

l3auble · #9 09-01-2006, 12:24 PM

I don't understand why you think a straight is an unlikely holding for him at this point? He checkraised the turn after a bet and a call on that super dangerous board. Why not lead out with KT or AT? Why draw on that flop to begin with!?? Seriously, I think the decision is much closer than you guys are giving it credit for. With the big pot, I probably should've called down, but I think his range leans towards the stronger set of hands on this board.

Xhad · #10 09-01-2006, 01:12 PM

lauble:

One huge flaw in your reasoning is that fish don't know when to protect hands and when to milk with them, they don't know how to read hands and they certainly don't have a detailed picture of what you would do with different hands. That's why they do things like slowplay quads or a boat on a 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board multiway, or limp with AA preflop and then raise the turn even though it's obvious someone outdrew them already.

Yes, the c/r probably means he likes his hand. So? Maybe he has a T and doesn't realize that it isn't good enough to c/r with. Maybe he's just thinking "ZOMG TOP PAIR CHECKRAISE IT." I've seen people "slowplay" AK in this fashion!

And your sample size is too small to fold an overpair against a single raise. You generally need more than one raise to fold an overpair without a good (better than 200 hands) read.