$22s - AK totally misplayed

alvaroaze · #1 08-31-2006, 09:22 AM

Ok, i know i [censored] up this hand pretty bad, advice on all streets please.
PF i didnt know what to do with the caller and then the raise. Pushing seemed stupid, and folding seemed weak, so i called. On the flop should i raise after the gay cbet??? Im totally lost [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

PartyPoker $22 Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t60 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t2540)
UTG+1 (t4530)
MP1 (t1800)
MP2 (t3605)
CO (t1715)
Button (t1890)
SB (t1980)
BB (t1940)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to t170, UTG+1 calls t170, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to t280, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls t110, UTG+1 calls t110

Flop: (t930) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets t60, Hero calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60

Turn: (t1110) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t60, MP2 raises to t345, Hero?

Lori · #2 08-31-2006, 09:34 AM

I think you've played this okay.

Probably have to stick the lot in here, although the likelihood normally is that he has AK too (and therefore has at least one spade a lot of the time).

That being said there's nothing normal about this pot, so you can probably just push and hope here and expect to see all kinds of muck. He's played this pot so strangely I wouldn't be too surprised to see him with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and is now panicking.

Basically, against this "wtf" type play, I think you'd be wise to shovel it in now and see what happens.

Lori

HesseJam · #3 08-31-2006, 10:00 AM

I think you are pretty much toast here unless you spike a ten and even then you might split sometimes.

Preflop is where the trouble starts. Initial raise is fine. Then you get a call and a lame ass raise. If your opponent is any good and he suspects you and UTG+1 to be any bad it can only mean a very high pair. Your call is problematic because UTG+1 has still to act he could reraise which probably would put you to the question if you go for a 3-way. You call and he calls, which is probably the worst scenario. U know nothing. You are OOP absolutely and relatively to the expected raiser.

You don't hit the flop and have to call for pot odds which further bloats the pot. Great!

On the turn it should be clear that you are beaten as it gets, IMO. If your opponents know anything about NL they both have played all streets extremely strong. I think you are done. The good thing is that it cost you only 60 to find that out, so not much damage done here.

I think if you want to do something differently it would have to be preflop. You could shove the lame ass raise but probably would not win enough here. You could also fold. However, we've seen that it didn't cost too much to continue.

All in all, well played if you laid it down on the turn.

Lori · #4 08-31-2006, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are pretty much toast here unless you spike a ten and even then you might split sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of us has misread this hand, I think it's you but I've been known to read the same hand 10 times and make the same mistake.

Lori

Longy · #5 08-31-2006, 10:16 AM

I shove it in on the turn i really doubt MP2 has the flush, you would be unlucky to run into AK spades here, utg+1 could have you but such is life. You will often take down the pot on the turn here or get a call from a flopped set, i think MP2 has qq,10 10 or even jj here quite often.

Pre flop is a tricky spot and there is isn't an easy answer to this here. I actually fold the flop as there is no card you want to see apart from the j and even then you are questioning yourself. I think your call has massive reverse implied odds.

HedCec · #6 08-31-2006, 10:20 AM

I think you possibly could have made a bigger pre-flop raise, to minimize the risk of having to play out-of-position with a hand that very well may be best, even when the flop misses you.

Checking and calling the flop seems automatic (folding is out of the question because of the pot-odds you are given, and pushing can't be right either, because you would probably be called quite often by hands that are beating you).

When you hit the miracle card on the turn I think you possibly should consider betting 60% of the pot because of the flush draw, and the weak action on the flop, but checking seems OK too, but in that case I'd be very cautious if a spade hits on the river. After you have checked, you obviously are delighted to see the betting, so when it's your turn again, all-in must be the only option (this will put your opponents in the worst possible situation, and maximizes the likelihood of them making a mistake I think - slowplaying must be wrong because of the 3 spades on board, and moving in after the river will give your opponents an easier position, since they then will know if the river helped them or not).

stupidsucker · #7 08-31-2006, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are pretty much toast here unless you spike a ten and even then you might split sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of us has misread this hand, I think it's you but I've been known to read the same hand 10 times and make the same mistake.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

You have it right lori, he has the straight on the turn.

and your advice is spot on too imo.

SoloAJ · #8 08-31-2006, 11:00 AM

I would be shoving this on the turn...If they have the flush so be it..but this pot is big enough to justify it. Personally, I would lay this in the category of "if I lose I fire up another"....

I'd almost be more worred about UTG player because I see him as having a spade and trying the old "bet small to get to the river cheap" trick to hit a flush...but he could have just about anything with that bet.

mackthefork · #9 08-31-2006, 11:01 AM

Lori

MP1 definitely has AA, and UTG+1 has a flush sadly so we are going broke. I fold, because I am 100% sure of this read.

BTW OP if you went in here, it would take a harsh man to say it was misplayed even though you were drawing dead.

Mack

Lori · #10 08-31-2006, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lori

MP1 definitely has AA, and UTG+1 has a flush sadly so we are going broke. I fold, because I am 100% sure of this read.

BTW OP if you went in here, it would take a harsh man to say it was misplayed even though you were drawing dead.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you play the aces badly or the flush well? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Lori