Alright I know I'm suppose to raise here...but how much???

[Scatman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but a hand with this many outs...I'm literally REQUIRED to raise here on the flop right? Question is...how much should I raise? I'm thinking...somewhere around $25? Also, after the turn 9 hits...how would you guys play this assuming you did raise on the flop and someone calls.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($165.60)
BB ($98.55)
UTG ($102.91)
UTG+1 ($93)
MP1 ($58.76)
MP2 ($98.50)
MP3 ($109)
CO ($98.50)
Hero ($126.69)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls $1, CO calls $1, Hero calls $1, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($6) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $2</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $6, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $4, MP3 calls $4.

Turn: ($30) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>

[bhudson]

Forget $25. If you are raising here it needs to be at least $35 so you can add some FE in there and make it easier to get it all in. Reason is with this many players in the pot, there might very well be a higher flush draw out there.

Ideally CO or someone out there has a set so you can get it all in.

On the turn, it depends on your reads. You still have plenty outs so you can play it aggressively or passively.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Ideally CO or someone out there has a set so you can get it all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'm having trouble seeing why this is ideal.

[EMc]

OP,

Why do you think you are supposed to raise here?

[jaminbird]

Do you mean raise the flop or the turn? Because it would be hard to raise the turn given that no one has bet yet.

[Nick C]

I like your hand and the situation you're in. Calling instead of raising also seems okay to me (I mean, you're getting the immediate odds, plus whatever implied odds you have). But there are a couple of drawbacks to the situation: (1) In a 4-way pot, your outs situation may not be as good as it appears, particularly with two players showing interest and one of those (UTG) making a bet that sort of looks like it could be coming from a draw; (2) Since the board is drawy and the pot is multiway, the action may freeze up on the cards that do make you best.

That second point is a factor in favor of putting in a big raise now, while you have an edge, although the first point suggests the edge may not be so great really if you get called.

I think I like a raise -- against just one caller you're only really in terrible shape if you happen to be up against ThXh specifically (although you'd be a dog versus a set as well). And if the pot remains somewhat multiway instead, you might get a free river, which I think would be good for you.

Still, I'm not really sure what's best.

Bump it to $25-28 or so? Push? Just call?

I don't know.

[bhudson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ideally CO or someone out there has a set so you can get it all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'm having trouble seeing why this is ideal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather get it all in here then risk further action on the turn. We are never folding this on the flop and we can't call an overbet on the turn.

However calling may be better.

[PoBoy321]

I don't think that raising here is ideal. As a matter of fact, I think that it's very likely that after a bet, a call and a raise, you're drawing to a lower flush than your opponents and/or are looking at a split if you make your straight.

I'd muck the flop.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that raising here is ideal. As a matter of fact, I think that it's very likely that after a bet, a call and a raise, you're drawing to a lower flush than your opponents and/or are looking at a split if you make your straight.

I'd muck the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting 8:3 (and often better) with an OESD and a flush draw?

I'm having trouble believing that's best, but you do have a lot more NL experience than I do.

[bhudson]

whoa.... muck?

It's highly unlikely we are splitting this str8. And a big enough raise may push out a higher flush draw.