How do I win this pot? 10/20 Stud Hi

[Xellos]

Obviously it's pretty unlikely he's got split Kings. That said, my hand sucks a big one here and is probably behind some sort of buried pair or a 3 flush maybe. Do I fold now? Do I 3 bet here and take the lead on fourth and fifth unless the board develops such that I need to get out? Do I call and hope to get a nice card like a T-Q or a diamond?


7 Card Stud High ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___?
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

[tpir]

I don't see any harm in just giving it up on 3rd. Your hand stinks and you are going to have to lead the whole way most likely.

[lstream]

You have been caught with your hand in the cookie jar. If some magic happens and you catch the card you need (ace) then villain very likely folds, so you stand to lose or lot or make a little in this hand. Run for the hills and fold now.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see any harm in just giving it up on 3rd. Your hand stinks and you are going to have to lead the whole way most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Add to that that, even he doesnt have them, your kings are dead, and this looks like a fold. If the guy is really weak and you think you can blow him off the hand with a complete bluff, then go for it i guess. Against most, just give it up now. If it were lower limits my opinion may change. YOu could pair your door and get called down the whole way at 1/2, but that is unlikely at 10/20.

[dsaxton]

There's no reason to get involved with a hand this worthless after you get reraised. Dont let the fact that you will feel silly folding 3rd convince you to make a terribly negative expectation play like reraising and bluffing the whole way. I would just fold to the raise.

[MrBlueNose]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont let the fact that you will feel silly folding 3rd convince you to make a terribly negative expectation play like reraising and bluffing the whole way.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is excellent advice. It's so easy to get trapped in the "ego" thing. The fact is: you don't win this pot, you raised on a steal, you were caught, you have no draws, and you fold and move on. Then, you congratulate yourself on actually making a fold that many players won't(due to the whole "ego" thing).

[Xellos]

[ QUOTE ]
There's no reason to get involved with a hand this worthless after you get reraised. Dont let the fact that you will feel silly folding 3rd convince you to make a terribly negative expectation play like reraising and bluffing the whole way. I would just fold to the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, in the actual hand I called, and before 4th even fell I realized how stupid this was. When I get caught like this in Stud 8 it's an easy fold, but I'm new to this game, so I'm greedy and want to win every pot I play.

4th street quickly showed me why calling 3rd street was terrible. I caught about as well as I could with my rags other than pairing my A when I caught the 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Opponent caught an offsuit Queen and I check/folded.

[cgrohman]

I was about to post a very similar question. I feel that this type situation is one of the biggest leaks in my game. I even get flustered when, lets say there is only one player and the bring in behind, and I raise with an A showing and 2 randoms underneadth and I get called, I have a hard time knowing when to follow it up with a bet.

What makes this especially troublesome because you have the Ace showing which means that you have first play. I dump it and make a mental note to be pissed off at a leter time.

[frappeboy]

Perhaps you should just muck 3rd instead of raising if you don't feel comfortable in what to do if this happens. I think raising 3rd is a small +EV but only if you know what you're doing. You got caught stealing, the answer is pretty simple: FOLD.

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
lets say there is only one player and the bring in behind, and I raise with an A showing

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I very rarely steal when I'm playing tight games like 5/10 or 10/20. It just doesn't seem to be worth the risk.