College Should be Free

[veryfunny]

College Should be Free, they can pay for it with the money they would save on welfare and prisons and people would also make more and then pay more taxes also

[TomCollins]

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College Should be Free, they can pay for it with the money they would save on welfare and prisons and people would also make more and then pay more taxes also

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And a pony for every child!

High school was free and you still did not learn how to write in proper sentences. What makes you think free college would do people any good?

[bills217]

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High school was free and you still did not learn how to write in proper sentences.

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POTY

[hmkpoker]

Lay off the pot.

[lehighguy]

There are already to many people in college that shouldn't be there.

Ideally, everyone should have to get a real job for a few years before going to college. Put it in perspective.

[hmkpoker]

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There are already to many people in college that shouldn't be there.

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Unquestionably.

What most people fail to realize is that there isn't nearly enough demand for all the "good" jobs we're supposed to get with a college degree. Even if, all of a sudden, nearly everyone coming out of high school wanted to be a doctor, that doesn't mean we're going to suddenly have a nation full of wealthy, white collar professionals; it just means that lots of kids are going to go to college, attend med schools in mass numbers (and pay greater fees, and suffer greater competition), and get lots of degrees. We'll have tons of doctors, sure, but they'll all be broke; there just isn't a demand for that many [censored] doctors.

Currently, I think the statistic is something like one in five BA/BS holders actually do something with their degree. What happens to the other four? Sorry, there just isn't a demand for them.

[pvn]

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Currently, I think the statistic is something like one in five BA/BS holders actually do something with their degree. What happens to the other four? Sorry, there just isn't a demand for them.

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While I agree with the rest of your post, I have a feeling that this particular statistic is probably overstated. One in five might be working in a field directly related to his degree, but many degrees (liberal arts, especially) are indicative of very broad, general skillsets that are extremely useful in tons of jobs.

For example, english majors are often derrided for their "useless" degrees; once I got into the "real world" and saw just how many people (in "important" positions, even) can't write a coherent email, I decided that I would give anyone with an english major *extra* consideration instead of reduced consideration. Communication is a vital skill for just about any business, and liberal arts majors tend to be pretty good at it.

[hmkpoker]

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For example, english majors are often derrided for their "useless" degrees; once I got into the "real world" and saw just how many people (in "important" positions, even) can't write a coherent email, I decided that I would give anyone with an english major *extra* consideration instead of reduced consideration. Communication is a vital skill for just about any business, and liberal arts majors tend to be pretty good at it.

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You look on the resume and see that one potential employee has a college degree, and one does not. You (correctly) assume that, in the absence of other information, the one with the degree is probably going to be better suited for the office job that you're trying to fill. But here's the golden question: is the employee smart because he went to college, or did he go to college because he was smart?

Chances are, the "smart kids" in high school are going to go to college while the "dumb kids" are not. That's just what happens. The college kids may switch their originally intended major, or (and frequently so) enter college with no idea what they want to major in (meaning that they took on a 60k+ debt at 18 with no plan as to why they're doing it, which I think should worry people since its so common), and usually end up with a job that has nothing to do with the degree; but the degree invariably shows that they were smart enough to get into college in the first place, which is more than we can say for the other guy.

As we let more people into college (through greater state subsidies and lowered standards), a college degree will cease to have its meaning as even a statement of blanket competence, and it will be even more worthless than it is now.

[Shadowrun]

if college was free than there would be no or at least weaker signaling that would occur.

i can explain what signaling is if you want.

[pvn]

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But here's the golden question: is the employee smart because he went to college, or did he go to college because he was smart?

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In this particular case, it's a little bit of both. Writing is a skill that takes practice. Most liberal arts majors (english majors in particular) do a lot of it, and with a emphasis not on expressing particular ideas but on expressing ideas (any ideas) well. The particulars are important in an engineering class, the writing itself is important in an english class.

I'm talking about intelligent, highly skilled, "educated" people who have trouble banging out an email that is more eloquent than "profit good, expenses bad". They are very, very clear on the particulars, and very, very bad at expressing them in writing.

I've noticed that these people tend to be culturally illiterate as well, and are quite boring, especially if you have to interact with them in any social context (they will generally talk only about work, because they are incapable of talking about anything else (well, sports and the weather seem to be common topics)). Reading a lot (and having a variety of different types of books) seems to help as much as writing a lot in improving ones self-expression. Exposure to diverse material is a good thing; many of these people are restricting their exposure to TV.

FWIW, my undergraduate degree is in mathematics.