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#1
08-20-2006, 02:37 PM
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marked card question
Hypothetically. Suppose you are in Vegas for the first time. You are in Vegas to have fun, and not particularly to make money. You are playing 15/30 ish, because that's what you play online, and you know you will be comfortable. You may move up later in the night.
You have been playing a couple of hours. There has been no setup change. The table has soft spots, bad players but not terrible. The soft spots are regulars. They play too many hands and they play badly postflop. You notice a mark on the back of your card. It is an ace. You are in middle position and the hand is a muck. (1) What do you do? (wait for the hand to conclude? tell the dealer your card before you muck?) (2) Do you still think you have an edge at this table? (3) Do you chalk this up as lower-limit shenanagins, or do scrap your plans to move up, because that would be playing for real money and you don't know what you're getting into? (4) Do you continue to tip the dealers? 
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#3
08-20-2006, 02:52 PM
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Re: marked card question
[ QUOTE ]
3. Your statement doesn't even make sense [/ QUOTE ] Thank you for your response. Sorry that you didnt understand point #3. The premise is that no one at the current table is an attentive, winning player. At a higher limit, you presume that there may be regular attentive, winning players who do not tolerate marked cards. Indirectly they may have your back. But you are not sure. You do not mind playing without an edge at the current limit, but you do not want to play for higher stakes than this without being comfortable. Also I am not sure why you are tipping the dealers when they are clearly participating in screwing you over.
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#4
08-20-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: marked card question
When you muck, tell the dealer to keep your card(s) separate, as you think the one is marked.
Play in whatever you feel comfortable with. Also, you never said anything about the dealer knowing about the marked card, so... keep on with the tips.
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#5
08-20-2006, 05:09 PM
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Re: marked card question
[ QUOTE ]
(4) Do you continue to tip the dealers? [/ QUOTE ] Was this part a joke or a serious question?
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#6
08-20-2006, 05:37 PM
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Re: marked card question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] (4) Do you continue to tip the dealers? [/ QUOTE ] Was this part a joke or a serious question? [/ QUOTE ] Serious. In the scenario I outlined, the cards had been in play for a few hours. Any competent dealer should notice a mark over that course of time, especially if the mark is visible to a tourist. The lack of dealer attention to the matter either means gross incompetence or deliberate negligence. The dealers in Vegas seem to be very very good at what they do. I am amazed by how good they are at what they do. Therefore I vote for deliberate negligence. I always always always tip. I don't mind it. But I do not see why I should give my money to people who are being dishonest with me. Furthermore, if you continue to tip, I don't see why the dealers have an incentive to promote honest play. BTW, I also make it a habit to toke extra to dealers who find these problems.
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#7
08-20-2006, 05:48 PM
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Re: marked card question
Unless its obvious, i think it would be easy for a dealer to miss. You see it because the card is righe there in front of you, not moving. The dealer has been moving the cards around, shuffling them, dealing them, mucking them, as well as keeping the game moving, making sure the players are betting in turn, and trying not to miss action, keeping the pot right, taking out the rake. He's not taking the time to notice if one card has a mark on it. They may see it sometimes, if that card ends up on the top of the muck, but other then that, there's not too many oppotrunities to take a close look at the card.
Also, you've been there a couple hours and this card has been in play, why haven't you seen it until now? The card has been in play, you may have been dealt it, or the the players next to you. If the dealer should have been able to catch it, you should have as well.
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#8
08-20-2006, 06:37 PM
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Re: marked card question
[ QUOTE ]
Serious. In the scenario I outlined, the cards had been in play for a few hours. Any competent dealer should notice a mark over that course of time, especially if the mark is visible to a tourist. [/ QUOTE ] The dealer hasn't been at that table for hours. You have. It took you hours to notice it. And you had nothing better to do but to closely examine the back of every card dealt to you. The dealer has no such luxury. You want to punish the dealer, who just sat down, for not spotting it first?
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#9
08-20-2006, 07:25 PM
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Re: marked card question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Serious. In the scenario I outlined, the cards had been in play for a few hours. Any competent dealer should notice a mark over that course of time, especially if the mark is visible to a tourist. [/ QUOTE ] The dealer hasn't been at that table for hours. You have. It took you hours to notice it. And you had nothing better to do but to closely examine the back of every card dealt to you. The dealer has no such luxury. You want to punish the dealer, who just sat down, for not spotting it first? [/ QUOTE ] I'm really really not an observant person. I have gotten through life with the following rule of thumb: If something is visible to even me, it's flashing in bright red lights to everyone else in the room. Even despite this, I think a veteran dealer is in a much better position than a novice player to see a given card. After about 15 hours of play (and I haven't played live for over a year), I thought to myself, "oh yeah, I'm supposed to look at the back of the cards. 5 minutes later I found something. I had been at this particular table for about 6 hours. Furthermore, I handled the situation wrong, hence my post. I did nothing, and waited to see what would happen. I admit that this was wrong. I continued to tip, which I also now think was incorrect (obviously I should only skip the dealers who were rotating back for the second time). None of the cards was ever taken out of play. The players were so terrible that I bet that it didn't even matter. I had played higher limits briefly the night before, which was more LAG but also felt more honest. I had been thinking about moving back, but after this incident, I was confused, so I did not play poker for the remainder of the trip.
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#10
08-20-2006, 07:31 PM
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Re: marked card question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Serious. In the scenario I outlined, the cards had been in play for a few hours. Any competent dealer should notice a mark over that course of time, especially if the mark is visible to a tourist. [/ QUOTE ] The dealer hasn't been at that table for hours. You have. It took you hours to notice it. And you had nothing better to do but to closely examine the back of every card dealt to you. The dealer has no such luxury. You want to punish the dealer, who just sat down, for not spotting it first? [/ QUOTE ] Not to mention that we have no idea how long the mark was there.
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