Straight vs flush? Value bet the river?

TomTom · #1 08-19-2006, 10:04 AM

LP table, 2nd orbit, no special reads. Catch 2 paint and
limp.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero...

First mistake is not waiting for a safe turn card to pop the pot, but generally I don't like any kind of slow play.

Table is in call me down mode, no one is going anywhere as this flop must have hit everyone. Had the nuts till the river, is there any value in betting into the flush draw here?

jrz1972 · #2 08-19-2006, 10:12 AM

Flop and turn are perfect.

Bet/call the river.

Lunkan · #3 08-19-2006, 10:16 AM

If you should wait until turn, it is not because you want a safe card but because 2 small bets and 2 big bets are more than 3 small bets and 1 big bet. I would check the river since CO has been representing a flush draw all the way.

I would call if it is one back. If it is more than two bets back I think reads are important since perhaps SB or UTG could raise with a single Q.

bennyhana · #4 08-19-2006, 10:24 AM

fold preflop. QJo, I want more limpers before I play.

bet river and call a raise.

Lunkan · #5 08-19-2006, 10:25 AM

Do we fold if we bet and it is two more bets back to us?

Langerz · #6 08-19-2006, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]

First mistake is not waiting for a safe turn card to pop the pot, but generally I don't like any kind of slow play.

Table is in call me down mode, no one is going anywhere as this flop must have hit everyone. Had the nuts till the river, is there any value in betting into the flush draw here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure being aggressive when you flop the nuts is never a mistake. Thinking about needing a safe card to raise is MUBS here. Like lunkan said you could wait till the turn, but it isn't because you want a safe card.

Easy bet on river imo. B/C in fact/.

bennyhana · #7 08-19-2006, 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do we fold if we bet and it is two more bets back to us?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah probably. It's pretty read dependant at that point. Against unknowns I would, but there might be one less kitty in the worls when he shows a Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Langerz · #8 08-19-2006, 10:33 AM

probably - without a good read anyway

Xylocain · #9 08-19-2006, 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we fold if we bet and it is two more bets back to us?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah probably. It's pretty read dependant at that point. Against unknowns I would, but there might be one less kitty in the worls when he shows a Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

And since at least one of the raisers will have at least a Q, the pot odds for a call is cut in half.

Smurph64 · #10 08-19-2006, 11:08 AM

No not really because if you don't lose you likely tie this pot now.