Isoraise meets deep LRR

NIX · #1 08-16-2006, 03:21 PM

This table had been somewhat short but was beginning to fill up. Most people seemed on the tight side, except the main villian in question here. He was 45/8/.9 and was kind enough open limp in LP quite a bit. I was using my normal isoraising standards (which are pretty close to my steal standards) and ended up isolating him quite a bit. Every time I did that, I c-bet the flop and every time he folded (about 6ish times in 9ish orbits). About 3 orbits prior to this hand, he check/raised me with A7 on an JT9 two suited board and showed after I folded my underpair. I haven't isolated him since. Where I'm going with this is that he may be on to me and may be starting to play back at me.

Against other players, the villian has called down with moderate hands like mid pair and A high after missing strong draws, but has donked in PFRers and PF3bettors with a flopped top pair or better, then called down after facing heavy aggression.

The BB has only been at the table a few hands and hasn't done anything noteworthy.

PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero ???

At this point, I became confused and began to suspect a bluff/semi-bluff on the turn. Normally, I see people 3betting or capping preflop and checking/calling the flop so that they can check/raise the turn with top set. In this case though, the villian donked rather than let me bet on a card that doesn't seem to help him. The three hands I suspected were a big heart draw, a set of 7's, or a preflop bluff that just improved.

MrWookie · #2 08-16-2006, 03:27 PM

I call this down, and then nh.

Rushinankil · #3 08-16-2006, 04:19 PM

I had to read this post several times because I wasn't sure what i would do in this situation, I think that based on the previous hand that you saw, where villain check raised with A7 on a scary board, that you will have to call down, because he could be bluffing but as you said, he could have very well slowplayed a set of fours or a set of nines.

Ignignokt · #4 08-16-2006, 04:35 PM

Under the circumstances he may be trying to fold you cheaply.

Call down; make note.

Nick C · #5 08-16-2006, 08:23 PM

It sounds like you're starting to get on MP3's nerves.

Anyway, I would call down.

Veron · #6 08-16-2006, 08:27 PM

I don't see any other reasonable option than calling down. IMO... he could show any 2 cards

Aaron W. · #7 08-17-2006, 02:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This table had been somewhat short but was beginning to fill up. Most people seemed on the tight side, except the main villian in question here. He was 45/8/.9 and was kind enough open limp in LP quite a bit. I was using my normal isoraising standards (which are pretty close to my steal standards) and ended up isolating him quite a bit. Every time I did that, I c-bet the flop and every time he folded (about 6ish times in 9ish orbits). About 3 orbits prior to this hand, he check/raised me with A7 on an JT9 two suited board and showed after I folded my underpair. I haven't isolated him since. Where I'm going with this is that he may be on to me and may be starting to play back at me.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to watch yourself when you are iso-raising villains. Notice that you've taught villain to play better because you were raising too often. Big big big mistake.

GameoverQQ · #8 08-17-2006, 06:50 AM

Call down. He might have picked up a flush draw or is just bluffing.Since he showed no agression on the flop and a pair of 7s wouldn´t beat your pair i´d call down.

NIX · #9 08-17-2006, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You've got to watch yourself when you are iso-raising villains. Notice that you've taught villain to play better because you were raising too often. Big big big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]
Normally I keep general tabs on what I'm doing and the image I'm giving off. I don't argue that I brought this upon myself, but the more I isolated him, the more I caught cards and the better my hands got, so I was missing a fair bit of value by not playing those hands. Although I suppose you could make the argument (and possibly be quite convincing) that the EV I sacrifice by not raising, say an AJs OTB (or other hand that plays well semi-multiway) vs. this limper and blinds resulting in a multiway hand is less than the EV I'd maintain by allowing a free steal of this guy's limps in the future.

In this specific hand, I just got frisky again.

With that in mind, would be reasonable to actually raise the turn since I really think I'm ahead more often than I'm behind here and I don't expect him to lay down a complete bluff yet, in addition to the times he's gonna come back at me again continuing the bluff? Or would that be taking it way too far?

mustela · #10 08-18-2006, 07:56 AM

I think that if he was slow playing a set we would have more than likely checked the turn again expecting you to bet (As you did on the Flop) - he would then be able to CR you.

So discounting that I ask myself why he was passive on the Flop when he was bullish on the pre-flop.

My conclusion is that he had a pair of sevens that he couldn;t let go off pre-flop, was nervous when two overcards came up in the Flop, but he has now just completed his set and wants to play again.

This is what my read would have been and I would have acted accordingly, probably by folding my relatively weak pair.

However - by dint of the fact you are posting this hand, plus the additional background you have given us, I suspect there is more too it then this .....