Busted flush middle pair river call?

Babs1337 · #1 08-15-2006, 10:08 PM

Villain is 38/2 over 50+ hands and is seeing 45% showdowns and also winning 45% of them and is thus -BB/100

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (2.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (4.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero ???.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 7c Kc (one pair, sevens).
BB has 4s Js (one pair, fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.25 BB. 

and do you guys fold, call or raise this preflop?

Nick C · #2 08-15-2006, 10:14 PM

That river card is certainly not my first choice, but I think calling is okay in this blind battle. Just don't expect to win all that often.

Preflop, I think raising and completing are both okay.

sharpie · #3 08-15-2006, 10:20 PM

I'd usually raise PF for value, and I'd usually bet/fold the river.

Babs1337 · #4 08-15-2006, 10:34 PM

thanks, I often get into the habit of check/calling instead of bet folding which is probably a more +EV move?

Nick C · #5 08-15-2006, 10:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thanks, I often get into the habit of check/calling instead of bet folding which is probably a more +EV move?

[/ QUOTE ]

A big reason to think about bet-folding the river in the posted hand is that there aren't many busted draws left for Villain to bluff (that he wouldn't call with). A busted flush draw is about it.

The play becomes risky if you're up against someone who will sometimes raise with a worse hand. If he'll sometimes check behind with a better hand (that he wouldn't fold), then that's another factor that favors checking.

Some players will bet (if checked to) with their strong hands and with their busts but check their marginal ones. Against a player like that, check-calling with a weak made hand gains a lot of appeal (since you're not beating many made hands he'll check behind anyway, but you can hope to snap off a bluff).

Nick C · #6 08-15-2006, 10:45 PM

By the way, at 0.5/1, I think your first instinct should be to bet-fold the river more often than I just made it sound like you should (in my previous post), especially when you're out of position.

It's an exploitable river play, but it's often best against loose-passive players. The reason is that when you check, you give your opponent the opportunity to check behind with the hands you beat and bet the hands that beat you.

Loose-passive players benefit from being given this option.