Limit getting tougher.

[winky51]

Anyone else see the swing in SH limit games at Party (or any other site)? Seems like every month the games are getting tougher.

I am finding they keep getting more and more difficult from 2/4 to 5/10 which is the range I play. Less fish more donkeys, lags, and tags. Still making money but I have to keep swapping tables as quickly the fish get drained and a table full of hard seasoned veterans or lags sit down.

Even 2/4 SH which was chalk full-o-fish kist 6 months ago is tough to find a juicy table. I have to dig through 20 tables to find 4 decent ones. Even then I have to contstantly alter play to extract the most from players and lose the least. I am also having more swingy days.

Maybe its me. Party still the juiciest?

[kimchi]

[ QUOTE ]


Maybe its me. Party still the juiciest?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think Party has been the juiciest for a long time. There are still plenty of fish, but you have to compete for them with all the other lags and tags. You just need to employ better table selection.

Other sites have gone the same way. Certain times of the day are better at some sites. If you don't find Perty's games as profitable anymore, look elsewhere.

[amulet]

the online limit games are much tougher then they were a few years back. the high limit games are much better live then online.

big nl games online still have a many live ones.

this was bound to happen. however, i am a little surprised that it is down to the limits you describe already.

[3rdCheckRaise]

Since mid limit games are tougher these days not a lot of players moving up the limits. Hence the SS games are also a bit tougher then they used be.

[JackCase]

I have been playing a lot of limit 6-max at Stars lately. I have not seen the games getting tougher, but I have seen a wider variance or range of looseness and aggression from table to table. At the same time, I can be on one table where there is a lot of limping and no raising, and on a different table, there are 2-3 people who always open-raise or fold. Since they are open-raising with junk like Ace-rag UTG, they are not tougher, but you do have to adjust. If you play correctly, you win fewer but bigger pots against these LAGs.

[AKQJ10]

So this may be a bit of a hijack, but in everyone's informed opinion:

What are the highest online stakes that a reasonably
intelligent and well-trained player LHE can expect to make a living?

Same question, online NLHE.

Same question, B&M LHE.

Same question, online NLHE.

And if anyone has opinions about Omaha, stud, badugi, etc. I'm interested in them too.

I recognize that "reasonably intelligent and well-trained player" is subjective and poorly-defined, so let me take some stabs at definition-by-example. I mean someone without an innate ability to read people, such as Hellmuth claims, but with common sense, willingness to learn from experience, and basic intuition about psychology. More than just ABC poker because learning to be an effective pro, I would guess, is reading when ABC poker is and isn't appropriate. But not world-class skills either. Just.... well-honed skills.

[LuckyTxGuy]

I cut my teeth on poker playing .50/$1 HE on Party over a year ago. I quickly learned to beat that level and made a nice steady profit for a single tabler like myself. I moved up to the $1/$2 and actually found it almost easier to beat. Happy with my long term limit results, I took a couple month break to practice up on my NL tourney game. When I came back to the .50/$1 limit games I found I couldn't make the money that I was and worse I was struggling to make a profit! I started playing scared which made it even worse.

I'm not sure what happened in that short amount of time but the games were changing and now the low limit HE games are nothing compared to what they were over a year ago. I play alot of $6 S&G's full ring and 6-max, both of them are totally different too. Lots of tight passive players. Every once in awhile I'll luck into an awesome S&G table where all you have to is sit back for the first 20 hands and the donkeys will knock each other out and then you can easily out play the monster chip leader to break him.hehe Doesn't happen very often anymore though.

[winky51]

Well good reading abilities are hard to do when 4 tabling SH or 6 tabling full. Well for me it is. My best play is at 2 tables of whatever I do. I can usually hit well over 3BB+ if I have the right players at the table. 2 fish to the right, no lags to the left. Good reads on all others to modify play.

I really just want to play live NL.

[winky51]

[ QUOTE ]
If you play correctly, you win fewer but bigger pots against these LAGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do adjust. All I am saying is that it was easier before. 2/4 SH was very very predictable. It now requires a lot more energy to play. Really I would rather play 2x 5/10 SH than 5x 2/4 SH so I can focus on their play.

Last night I was playing 5x 2/4 SH and this one player that stole a pot from me with a rediculous completely terrible bluff. How did I not know? Because I had 5 tables open. He was basically bluffing EVERY hand 3 betting the turn vs everyone. I didn't notice the 1st time I was in a hand with him even though I assume he did it several times before. I good $45 pot I tossed away.

Usually if someone does something similar 3 times in a row I get suspicious. But this assumes I am not watching them like in this case. But the 5 tabling cost me this pot for no reason. I had TP with a weak kicker and 3 hearts on board. He had 90VPIP and I didn't notice his previous play so I assumed ok this guy is a fish I will respect that and folded. Only later to see he bluffed every hand no matter what 3 betting with nothing.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Well good reading abilities are hard to do when 4 tabling SH or 6 tabling full.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt. But I'm also curious, do you count interpretation of Poker Tracker (or similar) stats under "reading", or as a different skill set?

Not that it's a substitute for reading the situation with your full attention, I'm just curious how online pros approach that question.