TPGK in BB?

[ericyp]

Hero is BB, and dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

7 limpers, I check it through.

Flop
2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] j [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb checks, I bet, UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, UTG+3 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, sb folds, Hero...

So TPGK, I just sat down, no reads. But I think the only hands that'd beat me, the high pocket pairs, and AJ, would've raised pf. Pocket 2's are possible as well. But then again, it is a large field. So what is heros play?

[Smurph64]

*grunch*

There are 2 players between you and the reraiser, however we have one cold caller who has position.

No reads here, I have to worry about 2 pair, opsd, better kicker.

Mathematically I think its a peel, though it could be a 3 bet. I have to think about other things here besides the math. I can't be happy with a Jack or a K popping up on the turn or river because Q10 is also a likely holding.

Now this is where I am not an expert but 3 way at least here with this hand I don't mind portraying a weak fold here as much as others do.

Its a big pot so giving it up seems silly too. So I have to say call here with the intention of donking the turn if a non threatening card comes up. I would love to see a 2 but 6 thru 2 are great turn cards.

First to act here on a turn is a great angle to shoot for, I think its a higher equity play over the 3 bet. If a k or a j come up on the turn I donk it as well. 8,9,10,Q,A I have to check/fold the turn. 7 I call.

[Genz]

It's a big pot and you have a decent hand so you have to decide if you try to win it or if you get out of there. I think calling is not the right choice. It accomplishes nothing. You don't know anything more, esp. when one of those scary cards comes.
You don't have reads which makes it difficult. A reraise is only worth it, when you can be pretty sure to fold those 2 guys between you and the raiser. And of course it helps to know if that cold caller is a fish who would call down with any pair. So if you think you might thin the field with a reraise, do so. Then donk the turn. If it is capped on the flop, call and check/fold the turn without trips. Even a 2pair might be too little then, because it puts 9JK on the board and someone has at least a gutshot. Just check and see what happens then.
Calling and donking is not a very strong move, I think. It won't get anyone to fold. It never does. But it is a good way to spoil someones free-card raise. But as I sais before: calling with TPGK in this pot with so many opponents isn't good. You either have to fight hard or let it go.

[Dastone]

Wow, this is a toughie, MP2 cold calls? What limit is this by the way? I think I reraise in order to put some pressure on the 2 callers in between you, and UTG+3. See what everyone does. The only real draws, are straight draws, and since you have a K you don't have to worry about the straight draws hitting there overs like KQ or 10, only the Q. Still if you hit your K it completes the most likely straight draw.

You can't just call though because the 2 in between players will likely come along. Calling and betting a safe turn is not a good option, because you may still get raised, and who's to say the turn didn't improve our opponnents. You likely would then be forced to go to showdown. Putting in more bets or folding what may be the best hand.

I don't like it since our position sucks, and a reraise will not drive out 2 of our opponnents at the least. Not knowing where I am at, and having only invested 2 small bets so far, and having terrible postition w/ so many players in the pot, even if we are in the lead it is not likely enough of an edge to warrant potenetially losing a lot more bets further down the road. I may just have to FOLD , and move on. Wait for a better spot. Yeah, get away from this hand early, and don't sweat the results. Just be sure to make a note of what everybody else held.

Edit: top part is just rambling in order for me to figure out what I would do.

[ericyp]

it's .25/.50

[Dastone]

[ QUOTE ]
it's .25/.50

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.... I was just curious so as to get some kind of idea what the callers may be up to. I guess it's not too important, but thanks.

Nice OP, a real head scratcher.

[Ampelmann]

[ QUOTE ]
I think calling is not the right choice. It accomplishes nothing.

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What's that supposed to mean? A call at least keeps us in the hand. With TPGK on the flop our equity is good, folding is definitely wrong. I think 3-bet > call >> fold.

If we can't hope to fold the callers we might call here and c/r a safe turn.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think calling is not the right choice. It accomplishes nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that supposed to mean? A call at least keeps us in the hand. With TPGK on the flop our equity is good, folding is definitely wrong. I think 3-bet > call >> fold.

If we can't hope to fold the callers we might call here and c/r a safe turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant: our hand is not strong enough to just stay in the hand. A calldown is very unlikely to succeed. Therefore it doesn't do us any good. Calling down on a board like this with just a top pair against one aggressive player, one cold caller and two unknowns is a leak, in my opinion.

And I don't want to c/r a turn with just a TP against 4 opponents. That is probably spewing.

[plonker]

You defin have to 3 bet this. If anyone had the A or higher pocket pair they would of rasied preflop. If you get capped on flop then you have reevaulate on the turn.

It is quite poss someone is holding pocket 2's. If they come at you again on the turn

[Sushiglutton]

[ QUOTE ]
If it is capped on the flop, call and check/fold the turn without trips.

[/ QUOTE ]´

Let's say we 3-bet (I agree with that) UTG fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+3 caps and everyone calls. Turn is a blank (12.5 BB and 4 players). Now we it's checked to UTG+3 who bets, MP2 calls. Hero? Isn't this a very tough fold to make getting 14.5:1? Ok we have one more street to doge/call but this is a pretty big pot.