Embarassing hand vs a maniac

DavidC · #1 08-14-2006, 10:42 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6 BB

cassette · #2 08-14-2006, 10:59 PM

It's weak, but I fold preflop.

Unless you flop a set you aren't going to have any idea where you are. Are you going to c/c to the river? If Villain has a low WTSD I might consider c/r the flop and leading the turn, but with the information you have provided I fold preflop.

swong4444 · #3 08-14-2006, 11:02 PM

How about 3betting pf?

It really depends on what type of maniac you are dealing with here. If this is the type to slowdown and let you get to showdown for 1.5BB, then I like 3betting pf.

Scary_Tiger · #4 08-14-2006, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's weak, but I fold preflop.

Unless you flop a set you aren't going to have any idea where you are. Are you going to c/c to the river? If Villain has a low WTSD I might consider c/r the flop and leading the turn, but with the information you have provided I fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

What information? I would just call river.

jph0424 · #5 08-14-2006, 11:04 PM

Fold the flop. Wait for hands that have better showdown value than an underpair on a 4 straight 5 overcard board. I fold flop here because even if you are ahead villain likely has many outs to beat you.

jph0424 · #6 08-14-2006, 11:06 PM

Folding pf would be very weak. Call and evaluate on the flop.

yellowjack · #7 08-14-2006, 11:07 PM

Quantify his maniac status and tell us how far out of line he has gotten.

Calling > 3-betting > Folding

We're getting 3:1 and have >50% over all non-pair hands. Folding is weak.

I like raising the flop vs. the probable gutshot to bet the turn and checking the river while folding to a donk. If you meet any resistance, fold immediately.

cassette · #8 08-15-2006, 07:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the flop. Wait for hands that have better showdown value than an underpair on a 4 straight 5 overcard board. I fold flop here because even if you are ahead villain likely has many outs to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't every flop going to have 3 overcards? Are you just playing for set value?

Dendrite · #9 08-15-2006, 07:10 AM

Just because every board will consist of 5 overcards doesn't mean that our equity is roughly the same against his range no matter what falls.

If you're gonna play for set value only you need to fold preflop

Oink · #10 08-15-2006, 07:33 AM

We call this preflop because we have the ability to tell the difference between an AKQ flop and a 226 flop. Folding this preflop against a maniac is not good

Advocating for a call preflop for set value is wrong against most opponents. Against a maniac though we just might have the implied odds.

This particular hand I think I dump on the turn. To many cards 7 or better on the board that is in villains range. In these situations I think that if we call the turn we should strongly consider calling the river as well. This river though is as bad as it gets.