Venetian 500K: How much do we like this shove-bluff? (long)

[ThunkHard]

This weekend the venitian ran their 500K freeroll for the regular players. 350 qualified, and the structure was essentialy final table takes most while 200 get paid small amounts. very top heavy since 200th is $250, 50th is 750, 11th $4k etc. 1st-5th gets about 300k combined, while top 10% mostly get less than the seat/buyin is worth. 3000 chips, 30 min levels, antes start on 3.

After getting crippled on a monster coin flip for the chip lead early, I had built back to around 3300 by the first break. LAGish image for me, but not really getting caught and cloaked well--lots of early/mid PFR steals on a tight table. Other than the two big stacks on my right, rest of table is very cautious through 4th level (gotta get that $250). Now we return from break and start 200/400 w/25, and this is the first hand.

Hero calls UTG (K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])
UTG4 calls 400, 1500 behind.
SB completes 400, big stack ~13K
BB check, 1200 behind

Flop 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB check, BB check, Hero shooooove

I had planned to steal here if the middle overcaller UTG4 didn't like the flop, and really didn't feel he was sandbaging PF, although I don't think there had been a limp+overcall pot like this since the 1st level.
Any comments always helpful, and I'm wondering.

1. Image/stack: with only a shorter stack and being one of the most active players before the break should I be tryign to just make a hand and double up? I'd have 2600 after paying blinds the next two hands.

2. Info: can playing K4 with 9 people behind and no real info NOT be totally donkish? With this flop, do I have any value? If I get a marginal call i might still with with any K or 7.

3. Bubble cash or pot odds for? The two shortstacks (overcaller, BB) hardly have more chips and are commited easily for basic pot odds and even if I had somthing big like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 (TPTK, nut draw) they could call with any piece. Are they really just hopping to cash by surviving another 25 min and uberknitting?

4. What's the worst case? On the flip side of the shortstack problem, even if I get snapped by them do I have a stack that can be recovered if I win the next pot? What's the bigstack SB's range to call this? He only has a bunch because he got aces 4 times for 3 allins, and is a solid older local player whom I've seen a lot of. He very rarely would insta check this scary flop with a big hands that could be vulnerable, but with the other players all shortstacked maybe that's the play. Bottom line, even with healthy chips he's not the sort to make any sort of loose call on this overbet shove.

5. When and how to make the move: My attitude on the flop was actually representing a semi-bluff i thought, "I've got the big spade so I'll just push" after double checking hole cards. With the limp UTG, I could have kept repin' a slow monster but just went with this "fake" semibluff. I figured that was easily believable, but wouldn't change the calling range and would even be scarier for a hand like J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Alternatively, I could bet only 1/2 pot ~800, or ~1300 half my stack, delay bluff a spade, or CRAI, etc.


For some reason, I just really had fun with this bizzare hand. Recently, I've been trying to pull a lot of scrappy moves with a decent sized short stack.
Maybe it's just more straightforward, since the open limp UTG is actualy creates the control, and then a simple equity push hoping they missed. I've noticed this more in cash or tourney, and after the WSOP seems that 'limping is the new raising.'

[DragonX]

fold preflop

c/f flop

i dont see the point of making stupid bluffs like this

[adanthar]

well, let's see

you limp K4o UTG at a full table with 9 BB

then you totally miss (I guess you have 3 gutshot outs or something) on an 865 monotone flop, so you decide to shove into 3 people

...good job sir

[TyFuji]

Fold preflop, c/f flop.

[Burno]

Perfect, provided it was opposite day.

[Bakes]

I love opposite day but I love money even more.

[nath]

oh man, it's not every day i get to say that a hand makes no sense whatsoever

[Supesimmo]

I didn't want to criticise because I felt it may be on a level of thought I'm not good enough to understand.

However....

[ThunkHard]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't want to criticise because I felt it may be on a level of thought I'm not good enough to understand.

However....

[/ QUOTE ]

tyvm.

[Mi_T_Sharp]

[ QUOTE ]
oh man, it's not every day i get to say that a hand makes no sense whatsoever

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a good example of the Freakonomics of MTTs to me.