double check standard??

[yvesaint]

PLO 1/2 party

4 limpers, i limp with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], button limps, blinds call

flop ($16) (8 players): T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

check, check, check, MP (200) bets $16, LP (200) raises pot, Hero (200) ???

push, or call? or is this a fold?? wtf

[joewatch]

Push and pray

[Parlay Slow]

What does pushing accomplish other than getting all in vs TT

Also you are crushed by something like JT97

when the guy makes it $64 on the flop, he's going to call most of the time, the other player in the hand took the most aggressive action possible in a multi way pot with players behind him to act

if you have no fold equity this is probably pretty close to EV neutral

[liquid]

[ QUOTE ]
What does pushing accomplish other than getting all in vs TT

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would be ok.

pokenum -o qs js 9s 7h - td th 5h 5c -- ts 8c 4d
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing Ts 8c 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Js 9s 7h 416 50.73 404 49.27 0 0.00 0.507
5c Td Th 5h 404 49.27 416 50.73 0 0.00 0.493

Especially if foe #2 has 88xx.

pokenum -o qs js 9s 7h - td th 5h 5c - 8d 8h 3h 3c -- ts 8c 4d
Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing Ts 8c 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Js 9s 7h 384 57.66 282 42.34 0 0.00 0.577
5c Td Th 5h 247 37.09 419 62.91 0 0.00 0.371
3c 8d 8h 3h 35 5.26 631 94.74 0 0.00 0.053

Although foe #2 may have a draw instead, which is less ok.

pokenum -o qs js 9s 7h - td th 5h 5c - jc 9d 8d 7d -- ts 8c 4d
Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing Ts 8c 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Js 9s 7h 130 19.52 359 53.90 177 26.58 0.328
5c Td Th 5h 329 49.40 337 50.60 0 0.00 0.494
Jc 9d 8d 7d 30 4.50 459 68.92 177 26.58 0.178

[Parlay Slow]

The guy with TT and/or 88 is likely to have your straight outs strangled worse than that. Something like JTT7 is a lot more likely that TT55.

[wheatrich]

with the $ in the pot folding is a mistake.

Enjoy the variance.

It's an unraised pot--those two tens can be accompanied by literally any two cards and you should treat that as such.

JT79? The odds of this are so freaking unlikely I'm not worried at all about that. If you're constantly worrying about hands like that you are missing some value in your game.

[liquid]

Fair point, I shouldn't pick such trash side cards. Here's one that makes foes' hands much more attractive pre-flop and gobbles up tons of hero's outs.

pokenum -o qs js 9s 7h - jh td tc 9h - 8h 8d 7c 6c -- ts 8c 4d
Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing Ts 8c 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Js 9s 7h 184 27.63 362 54.35 120 18.02 0.366
Tc Td Jh 9h 243 36.49 303 45.50 120 18.02 0.455
7c 6c 8d 8h 119 17.87 547 82.13 0 0.00 0.179

Much less rosy but still +EV 3-way.

[youdidwhat]

Why is this +EV 3-ways - or am I missing something?
Win: 27.63%

[Parlay Slow]

Humor me for a second and assume he has something like TT76. It cannot possibly be unreasonable to assume that sort of holding is an "average top set" for him to have. Giving him TT55 is much too optimistic.

Assuming it goes, fold and then you get all in vs LP (by far the most likely scenario), you are -EV to get all in there even with the dead money in the middle.

[liquid]

Parlay Slow, I conceded that TT55 is towards the low end of TTxx holdings and substituted a powerful JTT9 hand (better than TT76 as well) in the simulation above. Hero still has 36.6% EV 3-way.

youdidwhat, note that hero also ties 18.02% of the time.