What do you think of 9/11 conspiracy theorists?

[El Diablo]

OK, first off, I don't want to turn this into a repeat of the conspiracy threads that already happened in the politics forum.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the 9/11 conspiracy movement, you can read a lot of stuff here:

http://www.911truth.org/
Loose Change 2nd edition - Alex Jones conspiracy video

There are also a number of sites debunking many of the claims in videos/websites like those. Here is one of many:

Popular Mechanics debunking 9-11 myths article

So, there have been lengthy discussions all over the web on what really happened on 9-11. As I said, I don't want to rehash any of those here nor get into any of the specifics (ie: how does x,y,z make sense? how could a,b,c not have happened? etc.) There are plenty of sites and previous threads where that has happened. No need to repeat that here - both sides have their positions written on detail on the web.

What I would like to discuss is the likelihood of everyone being completely off their rocker with respect to this stuff.

This is the latest group that has received press recently: Scholars for 9/11 Truth

A quick scan of that roster on its face looks pretty impressive when compared to your standard conspiracy theorists.

What are your thoughts on this? My general feeling is that after reading as much as I have been able to uncover on these issues from both sides, I feel that while the fundamental elements of the events most definitely did happen (ie: there WERE terrorists, they DID crash planes, people DID die), it seems very likely to me that the US government has not been completely upfront about their knowledge/involvement/etc. regarding various aspects of the events. It just feels like there are too many things that just plain don't add up and too many well-reasoned arguments about what the government must have known or done regarding certain things.

So, what say you? Again, let's keep the focus of this discussion not on specific elements of things that did/didn't happen, but instead on your opinions on the whole 9/11 conspiracy movement.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]

So, what say you? Again, let's keep the focus of this discussion not on specific elements of things that did/didn't happen, but instead on your opinions on the whole 9/11 conspiracy movement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its like every other consipracy, the moon landing, JFK, Roswell (tho there actually was a cover up in that, just not what all the nuts jobs go on about), its all just BS that people come up with because they either need to wag their tongues about something or they cant just accept that stuff happens for simple reasons.

Also in the case of 9/11 I guess its scary for people to think that our government dropped the ball or that they had no clue, or that its not even possible for our government to drop the ball, because USA is the supreme #1 country in the entire universe, so there has to be some other reason for it.

[iron81]

Link to thread on this topic that got moved from here to LOL.

[waxie]

I have been extremely critical of the Bush Administration’s execution of the war on terror and also the war in Iraq. Still, I am very skeptical of any conspiracy theory that alleges government involvement with September 11th. The reason for this is pretty simple. If the U.S. government was somehow involved, it would take a massive conspiracy involving hundreds if not thousands of people. The Bush Administration couldn’t even keep their domestic spying program secret—it is doubtful that a cover up this immense wouldn’t have aroused the conscience of at least one conspirator. Someone would have come forward by now.

That said, I’m sure there are plenty of details about how the U.S. government responded to 9-11 that will be kept secret forever. However, I think that these details would likely show gross (if not criminal) incompetence and not some kind of involvement with the actual attacks themselves. That seems much more likely then some kind of grand conspiracy.

[IronDragon1]

The only people-as far as I can tell-who give even a miniscule amount of credence to these theories are FAR left types/blatant anti-semites with some type of ax to grind RE: Israel.

[El Diablo]

iron,

Didn't see that one, but the Alex Jones Loose Change video has been debated extensively on 2+2. I doubt there's anything new to come out of discussing that.

What I was getting at with this thread was the conspiracy movement itself. I've followed all manner of conspiracy theorists/skeptics/debunkers/etc on all sorts of issues. Basically, I always like hearing as many sides/opinions as possible, and feel (in a world where global conglomerates wield such power and influence) that it's very important to be skeptical and analytical about information.

However, this specific conspiracy movement just "feels" a little different to me in a number of ways. That's what I'm trying to get at here. Do you think it's all complete crap as Alobar seems to imply, or is there some reason that this movement seems to be rallying together some more legitimate sounding people than typically get involved in such things?

[El Diablo]

waxie,

"However, I think that these details would likely show gross (if not criminal) incompetence and not some kind of involvement with the actual attacks themselves."

That's very similar to my general opinion on the matter. Perhaps in relation to certain issues, cover-up might be a more appropriate term than conspiracy.

[Phoenix1010]

Alobar,

You don't think any conspiracy theory in history was ever right?

OP,

I'm not any more informed than anyone else, but I think it's likely something in the middle. The government is not being upfront about a lot of things, but conspiracy theorists are probably way off. I have a feeling that if the whole truth of the matter was spontaneously released today we would be shocked by what we'd find.

[El Diablo]

Alobar,

Enron is a great example of a situation that in retrospect seems near impossible to have taken place given the scope of involvement and knowledge by so many individals and businesses.

I am only slightly involved in politics (light fundraising stuff) and have only a glimpse into some of the crap that goes on, but am very close to many business issues involving major players, and many people would be shocked by what actually goes on when it comes to the wheeling-dealing of big business.

Perhaps this is why I am more skeptical than many about a lot of stuff like this.

[acoustix]

There may be smaller coverups within the 9/11 tragedy, but I don't think the US government had a hand in the attacks themselves. Why would they? As an excuse for war???? There were a billion other things they could have staged to serve that purpose without sacrificing 3000 American lives.

It is more likely that the only coverups stem from the former relationships between our president and our attackers.