Small Stakes Softness (2/4, 5/10, 15/30)

Ugge · #1 01-22-2006, 03:53 PM

Im currently playing in the 1/2 games but Im thinking of moving up to 2/4 pretty soon and would like to know what the games are at the higher stakes compared to each other. I did some datamining (Mostly between 18-24:00 ET) and found that 1/2 is quite similiar (confirm?) to 2/4 and 5/10 is super tight and that 15/30 is a dream game. Reason for that is that the rake is very small compared to the pot size (only 1.2% compared to 4.2% at 1/2), and that 15/30 is actually ALOT looser then 5/10... I find this quite odd. So my questions are how tough 5/10 and 15/30 are compared to each other and how tough they are compared to 2/4 and 1/2?

Chipspin · #2 01-22-2006, 06:19 PM

I started at 1/2 and moved through all games you've discussed.

1/2 is a high variance, high ev game because there are so many players in every pot. And 2/4 is very similar.

5/10 and 1/2 are difficult to compare because 5/10 is the level where the the players tend to become tight and aggressive. Pots at 5/10 tend to be heads-up or three-way, and for this reason, blind steals and blind defense become much more important.

15/30 is probably the best game on party. However, it's much higher variance than 5/10 due to blind structure -- everone plays more hands in the SB, and because there's more money in the pot, and the SB will always complete, other players have greater incentive to enter pots.

One piece of advice is do not jump directly from 1/2 to 5/10 or 15/30 regardless of your collected data. These are Very different from one another, and I would recommend that you move up slowly. While ABC poker is wonderful strategy at 1/2, you'll have a difficult time profiting at the upper levels.

Not sure if this helps, but good luck to you.

Chip

Ugge · #3 01-22-2006, 07:06 PM

Thanks, it helped alot! Especially the explinations why the games are differnt. And I have no intention of jumping through the levels. Im playing them one by one and moving up.

Faluzure · #4 01-22-2006, 07:28 PM

On UB at least, I see a considerable difference between even 2/4 and 1/2, in 1/2 the games are a lot looser and more passive. In 2/4 the games seem to tighten up a bit by comparison, and people are making lots more value bets. This is the first limit I really noticed people making lots of good value bets, and 3 betting becomes a little more prevalent. (in 1/2, there isn't much 3 betting without huge pairs/AK preflop, or the nuts postflop). I think 3/6 describes the games Chipsin was talking about, most 3/6 hands online (at least on UB from what i've seen and played) are shorthanded, though there are good games from time to time. 5/10 is definitely a lot like Chipspin describes, though I've only played 5/10 on stars before. Nearly every pot is HU or 3 handed, value betting, and blind play become much more important. At 10/20 and 15/30 the games begin to loosen up again because people are more comfortable playing in marginal situations and also a lot of games at these limits are shorthanded. Also, as Chipspin said, in 15/30, with 10/15 blinds there is more money in the pot which creates more action, from the blinds and other spots.

funkyrhino · #5 01-22-2006, 09:53 PM

I played at 1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, 10/20 (went over my head) yesterday and I really did the best at 5/10 on Pacific. The 1/2 games and even 2/4 games had way too many callers and my AK,AQs couldnt carry the weight after raising with 4-5 callers and me missing my flop while others bet. Once I was up a significant amount I thought I could to in a steal a one in the the 10/20 game and I did but it was just a little much for me at my skill level.

siegfriedandroy · #6 01-22-2006, 09:58 PM

can anyone else confirm the OP's comments about 5/10 being generally tighter than 15/30? Hope this is true. Doesn't seem to make sense that 15/30 could possibly be a far better game (in general- i know there are good/bad tables at all levels) than 5/10? Perhaps it is a bit looser, but the players are better (thinking lags?).

Chipspin · #7 01-22-2006, 10:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
can anyone else confirm the OP's comments about 5/10 being generally tighter than 15/30?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd vote on it. When I played 5/10, my vpip was 16, and at 15/30, 19. As I said earlier, I think it's primarily due to blind structure.

EDIT: Looser, but more aggressive.

Guruman · #8 01-23-2006, 01:47 AM

if you want to take a look at higher games, do a 15bb challenge sometime.

you take 15bb from the level below where you're currently comfortable, and sit in at one table. you play until you either bust out or accumulate 15bb for the next level up. Rinse and repeat.

set a time limit (like 4 or 5 hours) and start grinding. if you bust out you're done. If you finish in the black, book the win and pat yourself on the back. Some SSSH players have made it on a hot streak from the 1/2 games all the way up to 30/60, and booked a nice profit - all the while getting a good look at the higher levels.

not a bad way to spend an afternoon.

MCS · #9 01-23-2006, 02:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The 1/2 games and even 2/4 games had way too many callers and my AK,AQs couldnt carry the weight after raising with 4-5 callers and me missing my flop while others bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Way too many callers" is not a problem. A skilled player welcomes 4-5 callers when he has AKs or AQs. If you think that $5/10 is easier to beat than $1/2, something is lacking in your poker fundamentals.

TheHip41 · #10 01-23-2006, 03:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, it helped alot! Especially the explinations why the games are differnt. And I have no intention of jumping through the levels. Im playing them one by one and moving up.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 15/30 might have bigger pots, but, you will be playing much better players. You might not noticeit much, but once you get value bet by 3rd pair a few times, you might start to notice that you suck and they are good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]