4/180: To isolate, or not to isolate?

[seke2]

4/180. Hero has gotten hit squarely in the face by the deck so far and is among the chipleaders.

The shortie pusher has been here for an orbit or two and hasn't done anything special.

The BB played with the Hero for a bit earlier and recently got moved back to Hero's table a few hands ago. Hero won a recent pot from him in a blind vs. blind situation when BB flopped trips, flop was checked around, BB bet the turn and Hero made a borderline call with a low flush and gutshot straight draw, and Hero rivered a gutshot straight to take a big chunk of BB's stack. BB has also seen Hero show down QQ, AA, and Q2o, and played somewhat creatively with the big pairs to win huge pots.

Call the raise? Raise to isolate? Fold? What's your line and why?

As a more general question as well, what range hands WOULD you isolate with here, what you would just call with, what you would muck?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t3930)
Hero (t10475)
BB (t4220)
UTG (t2245)
UTG+1 (t2225)
MP1 (t1310)
MP2 (t1855)
MP3 (t3690)
CO (t3025)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t1310</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero???

[footnbaseball]

I think that if I play at all here, I'm going to raise to isolate. And I would play here with something along the lines of ATs+, AJ+, 66+, maybe KQs. So I would push to isolate here since if I just call and BB pushes, I'm probably calling. So I'd rather just make the bet myself.

[Toddy]

Believe it or not I fold here.

You have a great chip stack and theres no reason to look at your big chip stack and go for a race. He might have to dominated. WHat hour is this?

[seke2]

[ QUOTE ]
WHat hour is this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mid second hour, just before antes kick in and we go to 100/200/25.

[Toddy]

Okay I flat call this. I was under the impression this was really early and you had a ridiculous stack. He knows he needs to double up now. The next level he's screwed. He could have KQ, KJs, any pair. Even maybe QJ Q10. I flat call. If you get reraised your smashed by the person who reraises you.

[2Fast]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay I flat call this. I was under the impression this was really early and you had a ridiculous stack. He knows he needs to double up now. The next level he's screwed. He could have KQ, KJs, any pair. Even maybe QJ Q10. I flat call. If you get reraised your smashed by the person who reraises you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong Toddy, but we are at t200 BBs here with no antes - in your 4/180 strategy post (which was a good one!) didn't you say that these are the sorts of big stack situation's you should not necessarily call vs the shorties so you don't bleed chips? I agree that Villain is really short and in serious trouble and probably raising with something like A7+, 22+, KTs+....since I can't stove this at work I would think it's probably +EV but most likely a race like 55-45....

In any event, In this situation I think a call is bad - you're way ahead of BB's range and don't want him in calling for pot odds - you need to raise or fold. I'd prefer a raise and not all in bet as you have BB covered here - make it look like you have a real hand to flush him out and then get heads up with initial raiser. But I don't think a fold is bad - I just would raise with ATs here.

[rockin]

Okay, thinking this through:

A MP desperate player shoves for 6.5bb's. Hero in the SB has a 50bb stack and BB still to act has a 20bb stack. Hero either calls for 6bb's, folds, or raises to islolate.

If we call, it's because we feel pretty confident that shorty's range is pretty wide and that we are ahead with little risk to our stack.

If we fold, it's because we are weak tight and don't want to win the tourny anyway (just kidding).

If we isolation raise and BB has something he is willing to play, then we are basically playing our hand for his effective stack or 20bb's. On the other hand, the possibility that bb actually has a hand is pretty slim, so raising will definitely fold out marginal hands. This will definitely decrease the variance of the play so that you don't end up getting sucked out on with the better end of a 60/40. If indeed we are ahead 60/40 or better, then is it that awful to let BB tag along? It's also very possible that he doesn't like his "pretty" cards to be 1/3 of his stack invested in the hand and will fold to the initial shorty shove regardless of the odds he's given. If we do isolation raise and he actually has a hand we are now invested for 40% of our stack to a hand that at best we are a coin flip to (maybe 60/40) and at worst, easily dominated.

Let's say we just call. Are we calling a shove by BB? I think we have to call 14bb shove getting nearly 2.5:1 without risking more than half our stack.

Well, I'm sort of torn as whether or not to isolate here. Normally if I'm isolating it's because I'm trying to fold out a better hand OR to decrease the variance in the hand. Are we folding a better hand here? I really doubt it. Are we risking more? Definitely.

I think it's pretty close.

[AceLuby]

I call.

If BB calls he's putting in 1/4 of his stack, so if he's in the pot he'll probably push anyway, and that means you're dominated for sure.

I call because BB probably won't come along for the ride, and if he does, he knows it will probably be for his entire stack. I doubt isolation is necessary because if you isolate you are only getting called by hands that crush you for ~1/2 your stack. Just call

[seke2]

[ QUOTE ]
I call.

If BB calls he's putting in 1/4 of his stack, so if he's in the pot he'll probably push anyway, and that means you're dominated for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call and BB pushes, call or fold?

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]

As a more general question as well, what range hands WOULD you isolate with here, what you would just call with, what you would muck?

[/ QUOTE ]

Stack sizes make a huge difference. If you are talking about this particular example, then I'm isolating with most pocket pairs, say 66-QQ. I really don't want to let the JTo or A9o in cheaply (good odds) to have my 99 crash and burn.

Most situations, I'm less likely to isolate with weak aces. My hand will most likely need to improve and I'm not interested in making this a HUGE multi-way pot with a significant side pot to boot with anything less than a top unpaired hand like AQ or AK.

With this big of a stack, I'd probably muck sc's lower than JT and maybe some of the smaller pairs. I really hate 22 and 33. With both of these hands every hand is either dominating you 4:1 or flipping 55:45. I might muck 44 also.