TP + FD OOP, facing call and raise, fold?

[MikeyPatriot]

Have only been at table for less than an orbit. No reads.

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($39.60)
SB ($22.50)
BB ($21.05)
Hero ($68.25)
MP ($30.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2</font>, MP calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $10</font>, SB folds, BB folds, Hero ???

<font color="green">The maniac in me says, "GAMBOOOL!!!" while the nit in me quietly asks for a fold. TP+FD is a strong hand, but I've gotten a call and a raise into 4 people. If I had no one behind yet to act, I probably repop here. With a player yet to act though, I'm uncertain to the optimal play. I lean towards fold as we probably don't have much fold equity from button and there is a player still to act.</font>

Final Pot: $17

[Albert Moulton]

I'd fold preflop.

On the flop, folding to the reraise to $10 is probably best.

I would be sorely tempted to call. Villain has AX where X is bigger than 3 but lower than J, A2 for 2-pair, a lower flush draw, or a set of 2s. You are ahead of most of these, but if you call, just about all of these will fire again on the turn. If you raise, AX is the only hand that's folding the flop (maybe). If you turn a flush, only a lower flush and maybe the set give you action.

So, I think leading the flop, like you did, and then folding OOP to the reraise is best here if you don't fold preflop.

[hemstock]

Fold. With only 9 clear outs your odds suck and your implied odds are not good enough since most villains won't be paying off a third diamond.

[MikeyPatriot]

Albert, why do you fold PF? Maybe I just love suited aces too much, but they can make big hands.

Hemstock, I'm definitely not flat calling this. If I'm going ahead here, I'm raising/pushing.

[nyc999]

PF IMO: Fold &gt; Raise &gt; Limp

Flop: Fold. Like previous poster stated, you're most likely behind and don't have good implied odds.

If you decided to stay in, I'm wondering if a call is better than a raise, with hopes of an overcall.

[MikeyPatriot]

This hand isn't about preflop. I mix up my play enough with suited aces/connectors.

Seems like folding the flop is pretty standard, which I did.

[wslee00]

I'd mix up your pf calls in LATE position, not UTG. UTG should be a pretty standard fold/call/raise for your defined hand ranges.

[MikeyPatriot]

This isn't about preflop and I'm pretty comfortable playing them how I do. Preflop EV is so marginal that this shouldn't even be a discussion.

[wslee00]

considering that 3 other posters have commented pre-flop, I think that it may be something you should at least think about. Playing draws OOP is hard and most of the time you won't hit your flush and only have pair of A's w/ an extremely weak kicker.

Even when you have a flush draw, your options still suck. Check out albert's first post on the reasons why.

[noggindoc]

[ QUOTE ]


If you decided to stay in, I'm wondering if a call is better than a raise, with hopes of an overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great question. I'm curious here too and not sure I have a solid answer.

Also, what's the thinking on whether we just have flush outs or can we add two pair outs? Is this guy certainly on a set or AJ?