Live $4/$8 - Huge pot where I probalby play bad with bottom set

[Dopey]

Played this hand tonight. I haven't played live in over a month and probably have less than 700 full ring hands in the last 2 months (playing mostly short now).

I may have misplayed the flop and although I considered folding the turn (when capped) and the river (both times) I didn't.

Thoughts on how this should be played differently.

MP1 - New to the table, played maybe 10-12 hands. Has been very aggressive with the two hands he's played but not shown down.

MP2 - Have played with her in the past. She is very Lag but will slow down when played back at. 10-15 hands earlier she only called river raise with nut straight after backdoor flush completed (she had KQ[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and raised pre, bet flop and turn, was raised on the turn and led river on J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board.)

Live $4/8 hand (9 players) - Pre & Flop actions as close as I can remember.
Hero is MP3 with 33

UTG limps, MP1 Raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop (12.5 SB, 6 players) - A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB Checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG folds

Turn (8.75 BB, 5 players) - 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls, Button calls, BB folds, MP1 raises, MP2 raises (cap), Hero calls, Button calls.

River (24.75 BB, 4 players) - A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

MP1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls, Button folds, MP1 raises, MP2 raises (cap), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 36.75 BB

Pre-flop = easy call

Flop = I didn't raise, knowing I wouldn't get any hands with more than 2 outs against me to fold (unlikely given the players that anyone with more than 5 outs would fold at any point before the river.) Since I can't protect my hand I thought I would get more value out of raising a non-club turn as I was sure MP! would bet it.

Turn = Planned on raising until MP2 beat me too it. Given the way the action went I was figuring at worst MP2 has 2 pair but also can likely have me in bad shape. Given the pot calling > raising as raising would accomplish nothing and me being ahead was possible but not anywhere near certain. When it comes back capped I seriously consider folding but the pot is just looks too big although I may have as few as 1 out.

River = I call down, after my call on the turn I am pretty much committed to showing down as the pot is simply too big to fold now.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[jd_poker]

So MP1 has trip aces, which we beat with our house.
MP2 is a worry, but your read is far from rock-tight. We are likely seeing a weak Ace trying to protect from people who have just picked up extra draws with trashy hands.

I think on the river we have to raise for value.

[jomatty]

i raise flop but otherwise think you played it fine.
matty

[onegymrat]

Hi Dopey,

FWIW, I would have mucked preflop with 33 with players to act behind me. You ddin't mention the aggressiveness of the table, although it would not have deterred my decision much.

You cold-called looking for precisely one thing, and you nailed it. Yet you played it like you didn't get your set?! Your hand is a raise on the flop and/or a 3-bet on the turn. What more did you want to see until you stepped on the gas? Quads? What if villains had AA or 77, you say? If this worries you, then you should have mucked preflop...like I would have.

On the river, it sure looks like you're beat, but you need to call.

[Man of Means]

It's very possible both of these villains have big aces. No way I fold that river.

Flop: You can't "protect" against a flush draw with a pot this size. When you dump in your raise on the "safe turn", there's 8.75+4=12.75 bets in the pot, so for players behind you, calling for 2 with the clubs is profitable. Raise flop for value.

[JacksonTens]

$4/8 huh? Was this at Crown?

Also this hand was a callathon. If this at crown, you will lose this hand every time for ever. If this is agianst other TAGs you might win enough to warrant a call down.

JT [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Dopey]

Added note about the game:
This is a typical loose passive game with only one known Lag (MP2, and mostly LAG in HU or 3-way on the flop pots) and one unknown (MP1). Raising (except from MP2 who will never 3-bet+ without seriously strong hands) is almost no existent without the 3rd or greater nuts. In 6+ hours there was a total of 2 hands other than this that had a capped or 4bet+ BB street (turn or river) and both had the nuts against the 2nd or 3rd nut.

A few responses:

Mucking this pre-flop I think is a mistake. I am expecting to get atleast 5-1 and upto 7-1 on the call.

As for raising the flop vs. waiting for the turn, I expect more than 80% of the time I raise the flop (and am ahead) that I am only getting one bet in on the turn. Plus raising potentailly loses me players that are drawing near dead. If this read is correct then:

Call flop = 5 SB on flop + (A x2) BB on the turn (A = players calling on the turn)

Raise flop = 10 SB on flop (assuming people who would call one bet would call two) + (A) BB on the turn.

So (A) would need to be less than 3 for making the flop raise correct. I honestly expect it to be close to 4 players (me + 3 others) so raising the turn should result in a +1BB gain (1.5 BB more but hero invests extra .5BB). If it as an agressive game I would agree alot mor that a flop raise is coreect.

As for the turn looking like I played it scared, I was. MP2 is a LAG, not one to slowplay any hands on the flop. I gave the raise too much respect though. In hindsight, 2 pair seems like the most likely hand as 77 would of raise pre and any hand (except 56 and she's even raise that on the flop alot of time) would of raised the flop.

As I noted in the original post I had not played full much lately and when faced with situations with so many people in the pot I focused too much on overcalls alot and did miss some value I think.

The biggest problem I had in this hand is I had no read on MP1 (he was aggressive but no 10 hands with no showdown tells me nothing). If I had any idea how aggressive he really was I would of raised the flop and this pot would of likely been capped on all streets.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]