What are you doing in this spot

[Caddy_4_Life]

This type of hand comes up often enough.

5/10 game

You have a hand like Q5o in the BB

UTG limps, CO limps, Button (1st orbit at the table) limps, you check.

4 to a flop of Q72r.

You bet, folded to Button (uknown) who raises.

A) Do you call down or fold?
B) Would check/raising the flop been better?
C) If you call down does you decision change if you had T5o on a T62r flop?

-Caddy

[draw2aflush]

Well considering you know nothing about this player I would check call it down for information. What sucks is when a players jumps ship 2 hands later and I am thinking well that did a lot of good. So getting info works more consistently in live play, but I still call it down because first I might be winning and more importantly getting info on how this guy plays.

A) Do you call down or fold?
call down for reasons listed above

B) Would check/raising the flop been better?
Yes if you know the player, but this player is new to you.

C) If you call down does you decision change if you had T5o on a T62r flop?
Nothing changes

GL at the tables!!

[jba]

how about check/calling the flop, depending on the action? I'd do that a lot. usually i'll donk the turn or the river.

obviously T5o is a lot more vulnerable, if you're ahead you're less likely to stay ahead than you would with Q5.

I'd probably peel one and check/fold the turn.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

With no read I just call down once raised in both your examples. About betting the flop: If you think someone will always bet if you check which is often the case in many aggressive online games, then checking the flop will usually be better than betting. That doesnt necessarily mean that you should raise once someone bets however. For example: Lets say you check and an aggressive player bets and everyone folds. If he is the type to fire again with nothing on the turn, then I would not checkraise the flop. Getting an extra Big bet out of him in this very small pot is too valuable. If the villain is dumb enough to bluff the turn and river then checkraising the flop becomes a catastrophe. Against a normal opponent who will give up and check the turn on his bluffs/weak hands, you should go ahead and checkraise the flop.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Against a normal opponent who will give up and check the turn on his bluffs/weak hands, you should go ahead and checkraise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's against these guys that I'd c/c flop and bet the turn.

[MrEngenic]

I think betting the flop is a mistake here unless there is nth level thinking going on. Check/call the flop and then maybe bet the turn depending on who made the bet, who called, their positions etc.
Check/raise against some players in some situations but as a default, don't bet.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against a normal opponent who will give up and check the turn on his bluffs/weak hands, you should go ahead and checkraise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's against these guys that I'd c/c flop and bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually checkraise the flop in case they might make a loose peel for one more small bet when they have nothing. If the villain has 7x and will fold the turn to my line but not to yours, then your line will obviously be superior. If the villain will not fold 7x no matter what happens then my line is better than yours IMO. If the villain will not call the flop checkraise with nothing but will call down or bet the turn if he spikes a pair, then your line once again beats my line. Overall, I think checkraising the flop vs calling is largely read dependent. In the games I play in people have a very hard time letting go of 7x which is why I like checkraising the flop against people who wont bluff the turn. Most of the time I usually am check/calling the flop however cuz im usually against an opponent that is dumb enough to bluff the turn. I always find these sitauation amusing: A tight player check/calls the flop on a Q72r board in a micro-sized pot, yet these lagtards still think they have some fold equity on the turn. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Once in a while, I will also check/call the flop and check/raise the turn against an opponent with a wide betting range who will never fold a pair. To be honest I almost never check/call the flop and donk the turn in this spot.

[swong4444]

I usually check this flop, too. I always find myself in a tough spot on the turn if there are 2-3 callers, or a tough spot if my flop bet is raised, so I try to avoid those situations. Doesn't mean it's right, though. IMO, betting the flop causes me more problems than the value it's earning when I do have the best hand.

If a bet comes from the unknown button, I usually c/r, and start to like my hand. If it goes bet/call(/call), I'll peel, but not really psyched about it.

[Dendrite]

Re: "Tough spot on the turn", that reminds me of this thread.

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...rt=all&vc=1

Clarkmeister:
[ QUOTE ]



I understand your point, but in this case it does matter. It's about understanding the game properly and having a winning, confident and aggressive mindset.

"That's a great flop for me, I have the best hand so I'll bet (or checkraise if checked to the limper)" is the thought of a strong winning player.

"I'll semibluff here and hope that everyone folds so I don't have any tough choices to make on the turn" is the thought process of a the "trying to play well" player who still doesn't fully get the game and plays too weak to maximize their win.



[/ QUOTE ]

[swong4444]

Dendrite - thanks for the link! I definitely learned something there.

I think there are some differences between the 2 hands, though (A-high board w/ no pfr, 2 "stat" known villains instead of 3 unknowns, hero has 3rd pair in that hand and can easily fold if faced with any aggression). In OP's case, it's a tougher spot when his flop bet is raised. Thanks!