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#1
08-03-2006, 10:50 AM
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Horsing at a B&M
Has anyone encountered this before? No not H.O.R.S.E. - but it's basically when two players enter into an agreement that they will give each other 10% of any pot won. Obviously this results in a lot of pots being checked down on the river when it's just the two horses left. Is this legal? Collusion? +/- EV?
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#3
08-03-2006, 11:43 AM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
[ QUOTE ]
I've seen something like that in a semi-home game in the South. It had a different name, but I forget what it was called. [/ QUOTE ] Soft playing collusion.
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#4
08-03-2006, 11:47 AM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
I've heard this called "ping" at a casino in Lake Charles. There were 4 guys participating, and each time one of them won a pot, the winner would throw a red to each of the other players (we were playing 20-40). There was no softplaying, though. No one at the table cared; but when the floor came over and saw what they were doing, he told them to stop.
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#5
08-03-2006, 12:05 PM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
Several years ago I played in a home game in Louisiana where there was a "kitty" between two or more players.... and it got halted after a few weeks because it wasn't good for the game. Definitely it can encourage collusion to varying degree.
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#6
08-03-2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
I saw this at a satellite tournament recently - $100 buy in, 10 people, winner gets a seat in a $1000 tournament coming up in a couple of weeks. One guy asked me if I wanted to do this with him. Basically, if I win, I give him $100. And if he wins, he gives me $100. Kind of like an insurance bet.
Since I had no idea what he was talking about, I said no! So he did it with someone else, and that other guy ended up winning. I could see how it could create some collusion issues - I didn't really expect it at the time. But I don't think it happened in that game (since the guy who won got lucky hitting a 3 outer against me to survive and comeback to win, after the other guy was already out.)
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#7
08-03-2006, 12:50 PM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
Its not an uncommon thing to do a "save" of 5 to 20% between two players in a muti-table tournament. In a single table format, it might or might not influence the outcome. The "problem" that could occur would be a smallish stack dumping his chips, given a convenient spot, to his buddy who may be one of the larger stacks among the limited number of players.
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#8
08-03-2006, 12:58 PM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
Collusion, pure and simple.
The split pot gives each friend better odds to stay in a given pot with a marginal hand, meaning that the group of friends has a better chance of winning in each hand. Also, the slowplaying results in lower average pots/rake, which (sadly) is what probably most concerns the cardroom. Edit: Tourneys tend to be different - people take "pieces" of fellow players all the time, but since cashing/winning yourself is far more profitable, it doesn't affect play much.
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#10
08-04-2006, 01:38 PM
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Re: Horsing at a B&M
This is known as "Kitty" in a cash game. And it should not be allowed. It is a form of collusion.
One player "kittying" with another player has no problem calling a $40 raise from the other player, knowing he is going to get $20 of it back anyways if the other player wins. Buying a piece of another player in a tourny is a whole different deal.
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