"I Bet In the Dark" - Hypothetical ME Hand

0evg0 · #1 08-02-2006, 05:19 AM

Discuss the pros/cons of such a play.

Day 1 of ME, blinds are 50/100.

Hero has t14,000 and has been kinda loose-passive preflop, mainly calling in position but has obviously been doing so with marginal hands as he has laid down to some reraises. Post-flop Hero has played a more standard, boring TAG style. Hero is an online qualifier who seemed nervous early on but has settled in and has entertained the table the last hour and also got a free massage from this really hot chick. Hero has yet to be involved in a major hand and has been content to play small ball.

Villain has t18,000 and is also an internet qualifier, but is comfortable in this environment and is known to be one of the better players online. He has been looser than average preflop both raising and calling more often than most, but nothing ridiculous. He has been rather agressive post-flop and has won many small pots by taking the initiative and controlling the hand. He gained most of his chips an hour earlier raising JT preflop and then leading all streets when he flopped an open-ended straight draw and hit runner runner trips.

UTG1 limps, Villain in MP1 raises to t350, Hero in BB reraises to t1350, limper folds, Villain calls.

Hero has KJs and announces a bet of t1600 in the dark as flop is being dealt.

Thoughts?

Is this just being silly? What do we gain from doing this? What do we lose from this?

What if Hero raised to t400 from UTG1, Villain called on the Button, and Hero announced a bet in the dark with the same hand?

d240t · #2 08-02-2006, 09:30 AM

Did you "hypothetically" actually do this?

It seems kind of silly.

I like the raise, getting called, followed by a bet in the dark better than a reraise. This is a weird silly play you do to throw people off...and it is just as weird in that case as in the first case, but the first case costs more chips.

APipeDream · #3 08-02-2006, 11:49 AM

I think this is a stupid play, always, for obvious reasons I hope. Why even toy around with a play like that when you can wait about 2 seconds and decide with more information when the flop comes (you're going to bet anyway, right)? It's not like you're outsmarting someone with the play, and betting as you probably would post-flop seems quite normal. A bet in the dark, in my opinion, will keep weaker players in the hand longer as well, chasing their draws, assuming you're just "playing around" when arbitrarily tossing your chips in the pot. Unless you're sitting on As or Ks, I see absolutely no gain in this.

bobbycharles · #4 08-02-2006, 12:45 PM

go back to the part where he got a massage from a really hot chick.

0evg0 · #5 08-02-2006, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you're sitting on As or Ks, I see absolutely no gain in this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

Take a break from knee-jerk reactions for a second and decide whether this play accomplishes representing exactly what you said you'd only do this with.

stokken · #6 08-02-2006, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you're sitting on As or Ks, I see absolutely no gain in this.

[/ QUOTE ] Uh? There isnt much gain in telling your opponent what u got is it anyways. But its sometimes nice to make them wonder.

What have we just accomplished( with reasonable estimate).

We are either percieved as a moron or as real strong: AA-KK

We are playing two ranges: AA-KK and K-J

Then it is critical to have a read on our "played" opponent

What level is he thinking on, how bold is he.

If we just represented AA-KK, and he is convinced.Then on a no A-K flopp he should raise regardless of holding no?

We have just told him our very narrow range( or if he actually holds AA-KK , our bluff), and he should say " Hey, my hand will deck you faster then you can say AA-KK".

Question is what flopp can we push-reraise with.

2nd dilemma what if he just calls, what hands can we drive this with.

Against a weak player we most likely stole pot.

Against a thinking player, we might have induced action.

Against a real good player he may well see right trough it and he will incorporate a broader range( then actually holding AA-KK would be good I suppose)

There is also the odd oportunity that the hot chick thinks you`re the man when you show your bold play to her. Then again she could be some other players girlfriend extracting info on you [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

0evg0 · #7 08-02-2006, 03:33 PM

Thank you stokken, this is exactly what I was getting at.

It's not a coincidence that our stack size is one where a 3-bet all-in is reasonable.

Do you feel that Villains will reraise with air representing better than 1-pair here that often?

How much respect will a 3-bet push receive? Compared to a 3-bet push without leading in the dark?

What would the best hand to make this play with be? A lower suited connector? I can't imagine doing this with any pair would be correct, and something like AK also has more value and doesn't have the reverse implied odds that KJ does being played OOP.

NHFunkii · #8 08-02-2006, 10:31 PM

against players who I haven't played extensively against, I would have no idea how it would be reacted too, so I would not be at all comfortable in bet-3betting allin on a pure bluff

Harris · #9 08-03-2006, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What would the best hand to make this play with be? A lower suited connector? I can't imagine doing this with any pair would be correct, and something like AK also has more value and doesn't have the reverse implied odds that KJ does being played OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're spot-on with not wanting to be hammered with reverse implied odds when making this play. However, more importantly, you want to carefully choose the player and situaton in which you run this play. I would prefer a weaker, more predictable opponent, and a situation in which I can exert more pressure relative to his stack.