advice on moving up.

[reddred]

I've been playing for @ 3 years now. 1st year...I was just jerking around, but last 2 years been more serious. I play mainly 6max limit, although I pepper my play w/ all forms of holdem just for variety. Long story short, I'm having trouble breaking into 5/10 limit. I'm beating 2/4 for 2.68BB/100 (over 125khands) , 3/6 is a bit less, about 1.1BB/100 (over 75k hands), and then when I take a shot at 5/10, I absolutely get my ass handed to me. If not sooner, then later. So I keep repeating this cycle where I grind out a decent bankroll (around 7k at the moment), take a shot, and POW...get hammered....then I regret taking a shot saying I shgoulda just kept plodding along at 2/4 and 3/6. Then , when I'm real comfortable again, I say...christ, I have to move up....I could be making so much more money and I'm sickly over-rolled for what I play.
I've analyzed the hands from my 5/10 sessions, and posted just a few of them. Nothing much to report there....seems for the most part I'm just on the ass end of varience. The majority of my losses seem to be either bad luck, or 2nd best hand syndrome.l I can recognize that, but meanwhile, the higher stakes are hitting my bakroll to a point that makes me uncomfortable. I'm not saying I never get outplayed there, cuz I'm sure I do. I can get outpayed at 2/4. I just don't feel I'm sorely outmatched there. Who knows, maybe thats my ego effing with me. So I have to bail and drop down....take a month or 2 or 3 to regroup, then try again. Then I get hammered again.

Doesn't seem like it should be that hard to post consisting winning stats at 5/10...sure it's a tougher game than 2/4.....but it's not like there's Phil Iveys at every table.
Any suggestions from folks who have had a similar experience? Is it possible I've just hit a wall and I'll never be good enough to prosper beyond 3/6? Does anyone out there do what I do, and spend the majority of there time playing at limits they are way overrolled for? Does that make me a wuss?
I know everyone is different and progress in this game at different speeds, but when I read posts from college kids making 100k a year playing 30/60, 50/100 and above, I can't help but think I'll never get there.

[SweetPea]

I find that I'm far less likely to tilt if I take a shot at a higher limit after I've already cashed out some profit for the month.

I do this. You are 1.1BB @ 3/6. Play for a month. Cash out .75BB/100. Devote .35BB/100 toward moving up (R&D fund). Once the R&D fund is depleted, you are done trying for the month, your roll is not crippled, and you still have cash in hand for your efforts.

It's slow, but for me, it's far less tilt-inducing than amassing 200+BB at the next limit and breaking my roll down to the point where I have to spend a long time rebuilding before the next shot. Ie, lots of small shots....no big ones. It's easier on my psyche and it gives me ample time between tries to re-evaluate my game and/or learn more before the next try.

If you are constantly trying to move up without any profit-taking, you are destined to bust out, aren't you? Let's say you start at $.50/$1 with $100. You turn it into $400. Now you move to $2/$4 with your 200BB. You turn that into $1200 and move to $3/$6 with your 200BB. On and on, until you eventually hit a -200BB streak (be it lack of skill, or variance) and you are busted unless you are one of the few very lucky, or very gifted players that climbs all the way to the top.

[bernie]

A little ego may be creeping in.

Alot of those college kids have likely less investment than most so they have less to lose. Then, to a point, it's a matter of running hot and not looking back. Moving up that quick is a bit different than grinding out a roll.

You have to play within your comfort zone. You have to keep the monetary value out of the equation. You don't play higher just because someone else is, for whatever reason they are. You may just be in a long break even run. They can last awhile.

[ QUOTE ]
3/6 is a bit less, about 1.1BB/100 (over 75k hands), and then when I take a shot at 5/10, I absolutely get my ass handed to me. If not sooner, then later. So I keep repeating this cycle where I grind out a decent bankroll (around 7k at the moment), take a shot, and POW...get hammered....then I regret taking a shot saying I shgoulda just kept plodding along at 2/4 and 3/6. Then , when I'm real comfortable again, I say...christ, I have to move up....I could be making so much more money and I'm sickly over-rolled for what I play.


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Specify a number of BBs that you feel comfortable with at a limit. A number you know you will go back down to should you run bad at higher limit. So say you put that number at 500BBs. If you make what would be a 50BB buy in(or whatever amount of bets you normally buy in for) for the next higher limit over that 500BB, use that to take a shot knowing if you miss, you can still easily come back down, build and try it again. If multitabling, gradually ease into it. Play 1 or 2 tables at your normal limit and add 1 of the higher limit.

Sometimes there is an adjustment period when moving up. Nothing like getting your asshanders award the first couple time you do. It will make more of an impact because the money is higher. That's another thing to get used to. Flip side of that is, do you notice anything different about when you move back down? It should seem a bit easier to take losses at your normal limit. I noticed that when I was taking shots at higher limits. Like back when 10-20 seemed like monster compared to 4-8.

This happened to me when I first tried 20-40. I lost the equivalent of what would've been about 200BBs on 10-20 right away. Nice time to hit a bad run, huh? It sucked. In fact my first session was 4 hours and I didn't win one pot. Fantastic: Welcome to 20-40, Bern. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I wasn't used to losing that much(monetarily) at that time. So I went and hung on the 10-20 for a long while, got my bearings back and went for it again later in a much better frame of mind.

Online, when I first went to 2-4, I had a nice 20k breakeven streak. Then it just kind of exploded a bit. Some limits you may find yourself gliding through. I sailed through 3-6. 5-10 was a bit more of a grind for awhile. But you can interchange these limits to each experience.

Just make sure you're still playing well. If you're doing that, the rest will fall into place eventually. Read Dynasty's 3 years in Vegas. I think it was his 4th year update where he mentions he hit a wall for a period online, but kept at it and played through it.

b

[bkholdem]

I've been going through similar stuff at NL...
played 25NL and 50NL for a couple years, went to 100NL, no prob, went to 200NL and 400NL and did well first couple months. Then hit some bad variance (lost like 7-8 all in's in a row as a favorite-sometimes a substancial one- at 400NL) and it messed with my head so I dropped down for a while. Moved back up selectively... Last night I was at 600NL and got 2 outed in a $1,600 pot. That hurt. I think partly it is my age (39) and that I have been more conditioned to think of money in terms of weekly salarly at my main job. Variance hurts me and affects my play much more than most players which is to say that I do not have a good psychological make up to be successful as I am too risk adverse. It's a work in progress and I cant replace my roll without grinding from low limits so I perfer to play it safe. If I had 100K roll and the means to easily replace it I think I would have rebought in a second and kept playing that juicy table where 99 called a raise and a reraise, then called my utg limp re re raise and then pushed on a 8 high flop (I had AA obviously and called, as did QQ after my all in call). Most successful players would not bat an eye with 20 buy ins left. I [censored] myself lol;

[reddred]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been going through similar stuff at NL...
played 25NL and 50NL for a couple years, went to 100NL, no prob, went to 200NL and 400NL and did well first couple months. Then hit some bad variance (lost like 7-8 all in's in a row as a favorite-sometimes a substancial one- at 400NL) and it messed with my head so I dropped down for a while. Moved back up selectively... Last night I was at 600NL and got 2 outed in a $1,600 pot. That hurt. I think partly it is my age (39) and that I have been more conditioned to think of money in terms of weekly salarly at my main job. Variance hurts me and affects my play much more than most players which is to say that I do not have a good psychological make up to be successful as I am too risk adverse. It's a work in progress and I cant replace my roll without grinding from low limits so I perfer to play it safe. If I had 100K roll and the means to easily replace it I think I would have rebought in a second and kept playing that juicy table where 99 called a raise and a reraise, then called my utg limp re re raise and then pushed on a 8 high flop (I had AA obviously and called, as did QQ after my all in call). Most successful players would not bat an eye with 20 buy ins left. I [censored] myself lol;

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for ur post...interesting point you make about equating the money won/lost to salary. I think that might be part of my problem subconsciously. At 5/10 I could lose in one bad 2 hour session what it takes me 2 weeks to earn at work. I keep the 2 separate...life bankroll and poker bankroll ....but it's hard to get that fact out of my head that $500 lost at the tables is the same $500 that I earn at work and pays for my bills. Its a strange dynamic. I do remember when money won/lost at 2/4 seemed to hurt, and now it's like "whatever", so maybe I just need to get my roll up to 10-15k for the varience there to be like "whatever", then I can just play my game.

[reddred]

thanks for ur reply...I'll read dynastys post.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]

thanks for ur post...interesting point you make about equating the money won/lost to salary. I think that might be part of my problem subconsciously. At 5/10 I could lose in one bad 2 hour session what it takes me 2 weeks to earn at work. I keep the 2 separate...life bankroll and poker bankroll ....but it's hard to get that fact out of my head that $500 lost at the tables is the same $500 that I earn at work and pays for my bills. Its a strange dynamic. I do remember when money won/lost at 2/4 seemed to hurt, and now it's like "whatever", so maybe I just need to get my roll up to 10-15k for the varience there to be like "whatever", then I can just play my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely should not be planning to regularly play a game you have less than 10 buyins for.

[reddred]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

thanks for ur post...interesting point you make about equating the money won/lost to salary. I think that might be part of my problem subconsciously. At 5/10 I could lose in one bad 2 hour session what it takes me 2 weeks to earn at work. I keep the 2 separate...life bankroll and poker bankroll ....but it's hard to get that fact out of my head that $500 lost at the tables is the same $500 that I earn at work and pays for my bills. Its a strange dynamic. I do remember when money won/lost at 2/4 seemed to hurt, and now it's like "whatever", so maybe I just need to get my roll up to 10-15k for the varience there to be like "whatever", then I can just play my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely should not be planning to regularly play a game you have less than 10 buyins for.

[/ QUOTE ]

where'd you get that from? I have a 7k roll and we're talking 5/10 limit.

[Chicago]

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thanks for ur reply...I'll read dynastys post.

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I'd be very grateful if someone could PM this post I'm a twoplustwo newb but would love to read it. thanks

Chicago

[aajiii]

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I'd be very grateful if someone could PM this post I'm a twoplustwo newb but would love to read it. thanks

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