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#1
07-28-2006, 11:27 AM
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TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
I haven't played many hands, but the table seemed pretty loose (this hand is an indication for that). The only player I know to be somewhat decent is the CO (and he folds anyway).
Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.25. UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks. Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero ? I have TP, great. It's not impossible that someone has me outkicked (4.5 outs for me) and that someone has a straight (1.5 outs) or several might be on straight draws (bad reverse implied odds). Even if I have the best hand and nobody has a OESD, many overcards can come (bad reverse implied odds). However, the pot is huge (12 SB) and I close the action. Without the backdoor draw I think I'd fold, but here? 
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#4
07-28-2006, 11:32 AM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
[ QUOTE ]
you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair? [/ QUOTE ] Because there is one kicker you beat on a somewhat coordinated board? Granted not much aggression shown but how often do you think this holds up?
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#5
07-28-2006, 11:35 AM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
[ QUOTE ]
you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair? [/ QUOTE ] Because it's not unlikely that I'm behind already, either against a better T or a str8 (or even 97), and there are tons of cards that will kill me if I'm ahead (or that at least would give me a hard time to continue). Against such a big field a weak TP with no kicker wins almost never. I'm sure it wins less than 8% of the time.
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#6
07-28-2006, 11:55 AM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
I was saying that you were thinking of folding the flop with the fantastic pot odds to two pair or trips on the turn? I wouldn't ever fold in this situation.
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#7
07-28-2006, 11:59 AM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
Folding sucks. I'd peel here without the BDFD.
Even if you think you're dominated, you've got 4.5 outs to victory (BDFD + 3 two pair outs). Also, you're closing the action so you don't need to worry about getting raised. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that there are 12 FREAKING SMALL BETS IN THE POT and it only costs you ONE to peel and see what happens. [ QUOTE ] you fold too damn much. [/ QUOTE ]
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#8
07-28-2006, 12:10 PM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair? [/ QUOTE ] Because there is one kicker you beat on a somewhat coordinated board? Granted not much aggression shown but how often do you think this holds up? [/ QUOTE ] Somewhere around never. But, you're getting 12:1 to try and improve it...that's almost enough to draw to just the 3s, alone.
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#9
07-28-2006, 12:15 PM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair? [/ QUOTE ] Because there is one kicker you beat on a somewhat coordinated board? Granted not much aggression shown but how often do you think this holds up? [/ QUOTE ] Somewhere around never. But, you're getting 12:1 to try and improve it...that's almost enough to draw to just the 3s, alone. [/ QUOTE ] Yea, I agree it's a call. I wouldn't if it was two back to me though.
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#10
07-28-2006, 12:18 PM
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Re: TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?
[ QUOTE ]
Folding sucks. I'd peel here without the BDFD. Even if you think you're dominated, you've got 4.5 outs to victory (BDFD + 3 two pair outs). Also, you're closing the action so you don't need to worry about getting raised. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that there are 12 FREAKING SMALL BETS IN THE POT and it only costs you ONE to peel and see what happens. [ QUOTE ] you fold too damn much. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] When I was reading this thread, this Ed Miller post was exactly what popped in my mind almost immediately. Easy call. UI, check the turn and see what happens, if there is a bet plus some overcalls, I think you can safely fold then.
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