FT of $10 rebuy $35K on stars...marginal spot is it a call?

[n1232]

Im gettiing like 3 to 1 on the call. Buttons range is probably 22+ KQ+, as I have been raising alot of pots.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t30000/t60000
(Ante: t3000)
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1381668
UTG+1: t1064252
MP1: t844915
hero: t761132
Button: t362278
SB: t1474263
BB: t423992

Pre-flop: (7 players) hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises to t140000</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises all-in t359278</font>, 2 folds, hero ????

[rockin]

Not sure why you didn't shove this preflop. You only have like 12bb's. This is the exact reason you do not standard raise when you are this short. Getting 3:1, I can't find a fold. If you had shoved, you would be putting villain to the tough decision with his A7s or KJo or 66.

[ImOnWheels]

You're getting 2.78-1 and if u lose you are left with 400k which is still on par with the sb and bb. If you win you're among the chip leaders. I make the call and try to suck out when he shows an ace or a pair. get your chips in!!

[ImOnWheels]

good point.. iprob shove almost all of my hands here.

[n1232]

Please explain to me why shoving 12BB's w/ A2 is a +EV move. I am not saying it is not, I am just trying to understand it.

I don't see anyway we get called without being dominated. Obv. we don't want to get called, but when I do push I would like to know if I get called I have some chance of winning the hand.

Wouldn't folding be better than pushing 12BB's here, and probably better than the standard raise I made as well?

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
Please explain to me why shoving 12BB's w/ A2 is a +EV move. I am not saying it is not, I am just trying to understand it.

I don't see anyway we get called without being dominated. Obv. we don't want to get called, but when I do push I would like to know if I get called I have some chance of winning the hand.

Wouldn't folding be better than pushing 12BB's here, and probably better than the standard raise I made as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

Proper pushbotting requires you to open/shove or open/fold when your stack is below a certain level. Depending on the player, each will recommend a different level at which they will begin pushing (usually anywhere from 10bb's to 15bb's and with some even to 20bb's). You should not be making standard raises with this size stack. Say for instance you raise to 3xbb with your 12bb stack and the BB calls. The pot is now roughly 7bb's, so a standard CB will cost you about 4bb's out of your remaining 9bb's. What this means is that any standard raise is basically pot committing you, so instead if you just shove, you are more likely to win the hand right there with the FE you have and if you are called, you also have a chance to double up and therefore make it pretty deep into the tourny.

This is all covered in HOH2. If you don't have it, get it.

[HamJam]

Does anyone open fold A2o here?

It's push or fold, and you're never in great shape and only sometimes in good shape.

Although final table situations are more based on images and reads than usual so if you think the shorties will call you really light, like K8o, then sure.

[rockin]

If I've been fairly active pushing once or twice an orbit, I will sometimes fold this. I want to show the other players at the table that I am not just shoving when it is folded to me. Let them think that when I am shoving that it is at least a top tier hand. So, often I will use about 2 seconds of my time to make sure everyone doesn't glaze over the fact that I folded. Give them a second to think, oh here he goes again, he's going to shove, since everyone folded and then a second or so later, you fold, and they are like, oh, maybe he has been pushing reasonable hands if he folded here.

[n1232]

I have read HOH2 and I don't really recall him encouraging an open push from MP with an M of almost 7 with a hand like A2o. I know when the table gets short we are to adjust the caclulation based on # of players (and I don't remember what the calc is off the top of my head), but I still don't think it puts us in the red zone where we are pushing everything.

Granted I can see where a standard raise pot commits me and is wrong, meaning it should be push or fold...but looking back, I think fold would be a better choice.

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
I have read HOH2 and I don't really recall him encouraging an open push from MP with an M of almost 7 with a hand like A2o. I know when the table gets short we are to adjust the caclulation based on # of players (and I don't remember what the calc is off the top of my head), but I still don't think it puts us in the red zone where we are pushing everything.

Granted I can see where a standard raise pot commits me and is wrong, meaning it should be push or fold...but looking back, I think fold would be a better choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is fine. My point wasn't that you should be shoving this. My point was why are you raising, you should be shoving. In other words, push or fold. When your M is this low, your steals should now be in the realm of pushes, not standard raises.