The Importance of Position

[aditya]

Everyone stresses the importance of position, and obviously it is important if you have a strong hand, but I find that in most cases me being in early position better. For instance, in a tourney where the blinds are fairly high, if the flop hits me (lets say middle pair), I can bet half the pot and most likely take it down right there and/or take it on the turn. However, if I'm on the button and there is a raise, I almost rarely know if my middle pair is good or not and find myself in a hard situation. Obviously if it's checked around to me after the flop and I'm last to act, I can easily bluff and it take it down most times.

I find that late position is usually best when you have a GREAT hand because all the action has been done in front of you and you can judge to see if you're opponents are weak/strong and thus bet accordingly.

I'm new to the game so maybe I'm truly not understanding the importance of position, would anyone like to enlighten me?

[m3gatl20n]

Well im sure some people like early and some people like late. At least you like early, it does give you the chance to do things like you described. However if you keep betting half the pot on every middle pair you hit you may see some losses in the long runs cause if you get smooth called now whats the play this time? Bet half the pot again? Or do you check showing weakness? Late position is good because it allows you to play moderately weak hands so that you can see multiway pots. Position is something youll grow to respect and not abuse, because in the long run it will cost you if u play to many pots from early spots.

[fortunesknave]

I'm no expert, but I just went through a phase where I thought that acting first was an advantage, particularly at an aggressive table.

But I have played a few more multitable tournaments, and have been watching many of the newer tv coverage (e.g., Aussie Millions) where they show more of the entire tournament and not just the final table, and my thoughts on this are shifting.

It seems to me that if your goal is to gradually build your chip stack, and not to do anything short-sighted or reckless, than position has to be an important tool in that goal. It seems like you have to put more of your chips at risk from earlier position to dissuade players from playing at you than you do from later position, if you are trying to take down a pot without confrontation. But the real disadvantage is after the flop because if you make a play at the pot preflop, and someone looks you up, if the flop misses you, you either have to give up on the pot, or pay an ever bigger percentage to try to chase out someone who has already indicated s/he has some kind of hand.

I guess I reveal myself to feel more comfortable with the more conventional way of playing. I think it may take more skill than I have to be successful at the style you are describing.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
For instance, in a tourney where the blinds are fairly high, if the flop hits me (lets say middle pair), I can bet half the pot and most likely take it down right there and/or take it on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]You really need to step back and question why you're betting here. Are you betting because you hit the flop and want value or because you're expeciting everyone else to fold? Because if it's the former, you might as well be betting any two cards that missed the flop. You're winning here because being OOP is good for bluffing, not because it enabled you to play your cards better. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't be betting, only to consider that your play has some bluffing qualities to it. Of course, there's nothing better than betting out, getting called, and then hitting two pair or trips on the turn, so it does pay to hit your hand a little when you make these play.

If you think that hitting your hand and betting out lets you get good information, what do you think when your opponent calls? Do you bet out the turn or do you check? If you bet out and are called, you are most certainly behind (unless your opponent is on a draw) and it cost you two bets to find that out. If you check, a solid opponent is almost certainly going to bet, and now what do you know? You still don't know anything about your oppnents hand (he could make this play with just about anything), but he knows a heck of a lot about yours: you like it, but you don't love it.


Now consider the situation from reverse. You hit middle pair in position and your opponent bets out. You think your hand might be good, but you don't know, so you just call. You have given very little away about your hand, and you're about to find out on the turn just how much your opponent likes his. If your opponent fires again, you know that your hand probably isn't good, and even if it is, it probably isn't worth investing in a huge pot. Notice that this only cost you one bet to find out the same information that cost you two bets OOP. If your opponent checks the turn, your hand might have some showdown value or you can try to bet and take the pot down right away. Either way, you have way more information than your opponent at this point. And if you bet and he calls, you know he has a real hand, but not that strong. On the river, you'll be able to see him act first and react accordingly. By this time you'll have a much better idea about his hand than he'll have of yours, so you are much more likely to be able to bluff/call/raise effectively.

[gormancn]

Position is something that you will grow accustomed to using and understanding as you study and play the game more, but I do think it's worth saying here that there is virtually no debate that the edge position gives you is absolutely huge, and it negates any advantage you might have from being able to bet first.

The easiest way to explain it is this: since the game is a series of making decisions based on incomplete information, it follows that you can make better decisions with more information, and that's exactly what you get when you are the last act. Say you're playing against a player that frequently bets 1/2 the pot with middle pair. If you know that, you could use the information to call with nothing, and then make a move at the pot on the turn. Or raise it on flop. Because you have position, you are able to decide what the information means. You also know that no one has raised that poor hero UTG, who bet without knowing how the cards affected anyone after him, which means that you're probably not going to get raised either, and you can just play the guy who doesn't seem to like his hand that much.

What's worse: i don't know the tournament situation here, but if it was late, and you did hit middle pair against a few opponents, you probably did the right thing by making the bet, and you may have not have even had a choice because of the blind pressure. but the inherent weakness of your position makes it such that you have to bet out there to see where you're at. what if someone behind you has a set? You lost more than the person on the button, who even have top-pair, who got to see you bet, then get raised all-in by a tight, aggressive player, and get out of the hand virtually for free when he would have lost money (or his whole stack if he got pot-committed) in another position.

Let's not forget the ability to raise and then c-bet when checked to, to make more informed bluffs, or the ability to make calls with a much more accurate picture of your pot-odds in the hand. All of these things equal more money.

Dan Harrington said in his book that position was so important that if a world-class player played a medium strength player, but the medium strength player always had the button, the world-class player would have the worst of it. It's that important.

[JJNJustin]

Playing in good position is important. When you are in the hand, you should be facing the table. If you play with your back towards the table, you wont be able to see whats going on.

-J

[davearonow]

lol... good 1

[zth77]

along with what everyone else said about position, it allows you to make different plays to throw off your opponents. you can raise on the flop in position with drawing hands to gain yourself a free card on the turn and when holding a very strong hand can gain bets by someone in earlier position betting into you on later streets where you can raise then, trapping in some dead money. Position is key to poker, early or late, you just have to know how to use it to your advantage.

The other thing you need to think about with your middle pair examle is that you were betting with the best hand and other players merely folded a loser. A bluff isn't a bluff if you have the best hand.