.50 - LO8 - On Raising the low multiway...

ZenMusician · #1 07-28-2006, 12:55 AM

Party Poker
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) ZEN is MP2 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, ZEN calls, MP3, folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB calls, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6SB, 6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, ZEN calls, 2 folds.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, ZEN raises, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, ZEN bets, SB raises, UTG+1 calls, ZEN 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: 19.5BB

All comments appreciated.

-ZEN

dcasper70 · #2 07-28-2006, 06:16 AM

Happy Birthday Zen!

Any reads on these two?
I typically won't raise this turn without good info on opponents. However, this particular play can have some benefit.
1) Assuming SB has a decent flush or trips, UTG1 might interpret your raise as another high hand, making him mistakenly think his 24 or 34 is good.
2) Image. If you do end up chopping the low, the table may label you (semi-incorrectly) as an idiot, which will give you future action when you do have your 2-way nuts.

omaha · #3 07-28-2006, 06:26 AM

Why not just fold that rubbish preflop, or on the flop?
You are almost certainly playing for half, in a small, unraised pot, with no cf prot.
When I stopped these pf and flop calls, my game improved heaps

dcasper70 · #4 07-28-2006, 07:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why not just fold that rubbish preflop, or on the flop?
You are almost certainly playing for half, in a small, unraised pot, with no cf prot.
When I stopped these pf and flop calls, my game improved heaps

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point overall, but down at the low levels you can make a profit with these hands as long as you can outplay your opponents post-flop. Folding can be an equally viable option depending on overall table makeup.

JMAnon · #5 07-28-2006, 10:49 AM

Not in this hand. You have no protection and you are against only 2 opponents. Turn raise is -EV here, IMO.

Pnigro · #6 07-28-2006, 11:17 AM

Actually I like doing this kind of play THREE handed. When there are more people there's a higher chance I'm sharing the low with someone. This particular board give many different high hands (three of a kind, flush, full house, etc). Also, your low is with 23 and not A2, making it less likely someone else has it too.

I really don't know if this play is +EV or -EV (you have to choose the right situations), I do it to mix my game.

ZenMusician · #7 07-28-2006, 11:50 AM

TY DC! I feel old...

I showed down monsters and wasn't getting called anymore.
This is exactly the trash I like to show when that
happens (23xx). I knew this wasn't a chop for lo; I
wanted UTG+1 to misread me as I hadn't raised just a lo.

I like sandwiching the 2nd nut lo when I feel that is
what is happening. I disagree I am chopping this with
any frequency at this table once the A hits the flop.

Thanks all,

-ZEN

JMAnon · #8 07-28-2006, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I like doing this kind of play THREE handed. When there are more people there's a higher chance I'm sharing the low with someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are four players, it doesn't matter if you raise get quartered, because your raise is then break-even. If you raise three-handed and get quartered then you lose money. Thus, if there was another player in the hand, I would be more inclined to raise, because getting quartered wouldn't really hurt. Aside from the potential of being quartered, hero has no counterfeit protection in this hand and has no shot at high. Pumping the pot three-handed with no chance at high and the potential to get counterfeited is not a good move. On the river, whether I raise would depend on what I knew about my opponents. Many many players will simply call all bets and raises with a nut low, because "raising the low" is the sure sign of a fish [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. If I knew the passive opponent here was one of those types, I wouldn't jam it with just a low on the river.

jjgoldy5 · #9 07-28-2006, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If there are four players, it doesn't matter if you raise get quartered, because your raise is then break-even.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the case probably 4/5 times, but occasionally , you will have 3 players playing the low, and 1 player playing the high (nut flush) and you will get yourself 1/6thd. I wouldn't recommend playing a lo only hand as a push even 4 handed, I would just call down (pull).

It pays to look at the texture of the flop, and your opponents betting patterns (who pushes hard with naked lows). On suited flops, you generally have 1 person with the nut flush, and the other players being pulled along with lows, so be especially cautious of being 1/4 or 1/6thd.

It is vital to realize the difference between push and pull hands.

I hate the turn raise.

Johnny#5 · #10 07-28-2006, 08:38 PM

Judging by the way the action went I'm guessing you got quartered. If you had 234 I'd like this play better ... I think the turn raise is -EV and the river 3-bet is definitely -EV IMO.

If I were at your table I'd prolly respect you less after this hand ... which could very well be a good thing ... like someone else said, an image builder that is relatively cheap. Because nothing burns my ass more than some clown ramming and jamming with his low when i am splitting with him lol [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]